Return-Path: X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17DC51AC410 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:00:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SdOeXvBlOg1g for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 213821A854B for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 06:00:33 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79a26d00000149a-d2-561d0070f0d9 Received: from ESESSHC021.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A8.3E.05274.0700D165; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:00:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.226]) by ESESSHC021.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:00:31 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler , "mmusic@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel - "a=setup" versus "a=dcsa:x setup" Thread-Index: AQHRAptKOrKJQjdNlEOZxQotRUuV5J5kIoLvgAUjjgCAACJ0EA== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:00:31 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B41098@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <5617C92A.4030009@alcatel-lucent.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B388F5@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <561CFF32.5080601@alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <561CFF32.5080601@alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.16] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01D105D0.46E208D0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW4Bg2yYwZNd4hZP25azWUxd/pjF gcmj9dleVo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGW8OPCFraBzK1PFn/krmBoY1/cxdTFyckgI mEg8XLebHcIWk7hwbz1bFyMXh5DAUUaJLa1t7BDOEkaJidO+AXVwcLAJWEh0/9MGMUUECiXa WhVBeoUFUiUuvFnNCmKLCKRJdE98wgRR4iRx8kYKSJhFQFViQcc2FhCbV8BX4tzC46wQ0+cy SlxYtQXsBk4BI4nTS04xg9iMQPd8P7UG7E5mAXGJW0/mQ90sIvHw4mk2CFtU4uXjf6wQtqLE zrPtzCBDmQV6GSV+bZ0GtU1Q4uTMJywTGEVmIZk1C1ndLCR1EEXREj3TD0LZ2hJPbz6Fs5ct fM08C+g5ZgEticWzPFGFQWxriRm/DrJB2IoSU7ofskPYphKvj35kXMDIvYpRtDi1OCk33chY L7UoM7m4OD9PLy+1ZBMjMHYPbvmtuoPx8hvHQ4wCHIxKPLwLUmXChFgTy4orcw8xSnOwKInz NjM9CBUSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYovKs1JLT7EyMTBKdXAGJfmpT7FR239Q7E2Hq3J62YeXVfOkbyg 8u1ZjsC6mD7jy+94U27ZWdywP/nsbfH0ua2hDzaxfqqs/H/9xqXc6Ccnk9UFS69pzUp+8m1q B8+eJtecSzGS/PsbXSwZzNO3i28wfCdwILb7+YS5c2+JPL2qxXxO9+emeVd3X4s+mebzz0ux K32OvhJLcUaioRZzUXEiAL60n6y+AgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel - "a=setup" versus "a=dcsa:x setup" X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:00:43 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01D105D0.46E208D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01D105D0.46E208D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01D105D0.46E208D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 If a setup value is required for the MSRP session establishment, then = the dcsa setup attribute must be mandatory. =20 Regards, =20 Christer =20 From: Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler = [mailto:Juergen.Stoetzer-Bradler@alcatel-lucent.com]=20 Sent: 13. lokakuuta 2015 15:55 To: Christer Holmberg; mmusic@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel - = "a=3Dsetup" versus "a=3Ddcsa:x setup" =20 Hello Christer, Thank you for your comments. A dcsa embedded setup attribute does not have any MSRP transport = protocol related establishment role semantics. But an MSRP over data channel endpoint still needs to know its MSRP = session establishment role. In some data channel to TCP (or TLS) transport interworking cases, which = are described in section 6, this MSRP session establishment role cannot always be derived from the = DTLS/SCTP establishment role. In such cases a dcsa embedded setup attribute for MSRP seems to be = required. However, in some other interworking cases, and especially in end-to-end = data channel cases the MSRP session establishment role could be tightly coupled with the DTLS/SCTP = establishment roles and hence with the "a=3Dsetup" attribute. If we don't allow the "a=3Dsetup" attribute to also describe the MSRP = session establishment role (if no "a=3Ddcsa:x setup" attribute is present), then we should probably specify that a dcsa = embedded setup attribute is mandatory=20 for MSRP over data channel sessions. For MSRP as sub-protocol, would a mandatory "a=3Ddcsa:x setup:" = attribute be agreeable? Thanks, Juergen On 10.10.2015 06:26, Christer Holmberg wrote: Hi. First, I think you suggest far too much text, but that is editorial. Second, as you say, the media level 'setup' attribute is used to = negotiate the SCTPoDTLS association establishment. But, I don't think it = should be used to negotiate the MSRP roles etc in case the 'dcsa:x = setup' is not present. The 'setup' attribute has nothing to do with the = protocol carried within the data channel - the reason we defined the = 'dsca' attribute was to be able to carry such information. Regards, Christer Sent from my Windows Phone _____ =20 From: Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler = =20 Sent: =E2=80=8E09/=E2=80=8E10/=E2=80=8E2015 17:03 To: mmusic@ietf.org Subject: [MMUSIC] draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel - = "a=3Dsetup" versus "a=3Ddcsa:x setup" Hello, An MSRP over data channel related SDP media description will have a = media level "a=3Dsetup:" attribute and may additionally contain an "a=3Ddcsa" encapsulated setup attribute "a=3Ddcsa:x = setup:". Current version = draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02 does not yet have any text related to the setup attribute except for = listing it as potential dcsa encapsulated MSRP specific attribute. As the media level "a=3Dsetup" attribute is used to negotiation the DTLS = and SCTP establishment roles, and as the setup attribute is also used in MSRP over TCP cases to negotiate the "active" role of MSRP session = endpoints (RFCs 6135, 6714) we propose to explicitly describe the semantics of dcsa encapsulated setup attributes for MSRP over data = channel in draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel. We propose to add a new section 5.1.1.3 "Media Description Level setup = Attribute Versus Data Channel Specific setup Attribute" after section 5.1.1.2 ("Use of dcsa Attribute") and to extend existing = section 6 ("Gateway Configuration") with setup attribute related = procedures. Would the following new section 5.1.1.3 and modified section 6 be = agreeable? Thanks, Juergen Proposed new Section 5.1.1.3: 5.1.1.3. Media Description Level setup Attribute Versus Data Channel = Specific setup Attribute The SDP setup attribute, as introduced in [RFC4145], can be used in WebRTC data channel related SDP media descriptions as a media level attribute, which is directly associated with the corresponding DTLS/ SCTP "m" line. In this case the setup attribute is of the form "a=3Dsetup:", where assumes values as defined in [RFC4145]. Such a setup attribute is then used as specified in [I-D.ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp] in order to negotiate the establishment roles of the DTLS connection and the SCTP association. Additionally, the setup attribute can be embedded in a dcsa attribute and hence can explicitly be associated with an MSRP session over a specific data channel. In such a case it is of the form "a=3Ddcsa:x setup:", with x being the data channel's SCTP stream identifier. Such a dcsa attribute embedded setup attribute has no relationship with the DTLS connection and SCTP association establishment roles. dcsa attribute embedded setup attributes are OPTIONAL for MSRP sessions over data channels. If an MSRP over data channel description contains a dcsa embedded setup attribute, then this embedded setup attribute is used to negotiate, which MSRP session endpoint assumes the active role as per Section 4.2.2 of [RFC6135] and Section 5.4 of [RFC4975]. If an MSRP over data channel description does not contain a dcsa embedded setup attribute, then the media description level = "a=3Dsetup" attribute, which is associated with the data channel's DTLS connection and SCTP association, is used to negotiate, which MSRP session endpoint assumes the active role. If an MSRP over data channel endpoint wants to negotiate an active or non-active MSRP session establishment role, which is different from its DTLS connection and SCTP association establishment role, then it MUST include a dcsa embedded setup attribute for this MSRP session. In this case this dcsa embedded setup attribute's value is different from the value of the DTLS/SCTP "m" line's "a=3Dsetup" attribute. Proposed modified section 6: 6. Gateway Configuration This section describes the network configuration where one MSRP endpoint uses data channels as MSRP transport, the other MSRP endpoint uses TLS/TCP connections as MSRP transport, and the two MSRP endpoints interwork via an MSRP gateway. Specifically, a gateway can be configured to interwork an MSRP session over a data channel with a peer that does not support data channel transport in one of two ways. In one model, the gateway performs as a MSRP B2BUA to interwork all the procedures as necessary between the endpoints. No further specification is needed for this model. Alternately, the gateway can use CEMA procedures to provide transport level interworking between MSRP endpoints using different transport protocols as follows. When the gateway performs transport level interworking between MSRP endpoints, all of the procedures in Section 5 apply to each peer, with the following additions: o The endpoint establishing an MSRP session using data channel transport SHALL NOT request inclusion of any relays, although it MAY interoperate with a peer that signals the use of relays. o The gateway receiving an SDP offer that includes a request to negotiate an MSRP session on a data channel can provide transport level interworking in the same manner as a CEMA SBC by forwarding TCP or TLS transport parameters in a new "m" line with the appropriate attributes within the forwarded SDP offer. * If the received data channel side SDP offer contains a dcsa embedded setup attribute for the to be negotiated MSRP session, then the gateway interworks this dcsa embedded setup attribute with the media description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of this MSRP session's "m" line in its forwarded SDP offer. * If the received data channel side SDP offer does not contain a dcsa embedded setup attribute for the to be negotiated MSRP session, then the gateway interworks the media description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute, which is directly associated with the data channel's DTLS/SCTP "m" line, with the media description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of this MSRP session's "m" line in its forwarded SDP offer. o Similarly, a gateway receiving an SDP offer to negotiate an MSRP session using TCP or TLS transport with an endpoint that only supports data channel transport for MSRP can provide transport level interworking in the same manner as a CEMA SBC by establishing a new data channel for the MSRP session with the target endpoint. * In this case the gateway interworks the TCP or TLS associated media description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of the to be negotiated MSRP session's received "m" line either with the media description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of the data channel's DTLS/SCTP "m" line, or with the dcsa embedded setup attribute of this MSRP session's new data channel. * If the gateway's DTLS connection and SCTP association establishment role on its data channel side is equal to the "a=3Dsetup" attribute's value of the received MSRP over TCP or TLS "m" line, then the gateway MAY add a dcsa embedded setup attribute to the description of the MSRP session's new data channel in its generated data channel side offer. Alternatively, in this case the gateway MAY omit adding such a dcsa embedded setup attribute to the description of the MSRP session's new data channel in its generated data channel side offer. Otherwise, if the gateway's DTLS connection and SCTP association establishment role is different from the MSRP over TCP or TLS associated received "a=3Dsetup" attribute's value, then the gateway MUST add a dcsa embedded setup attribute to the description of the MSRP session's new data channel in its generated data channel side offer. * If the gateway adds a dcsa embedded setup attribute associated with this MSRP session to its data channel side SDP offer, then the value of this embedded setup attribute MUST be equal to the value of the "a=3Dsetup" attribute, which is associated with = this MSRP session's "m" line in the received TCP or TLS side SDP offer. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01D105D0.46E208D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

If a setup value is required for the MSRP session establishment, then = the dcsa setup attribute must be mandatory.

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

From: Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler = [mailto:Juergen.Stoetzer-Bradler@alcatel-lucent.com]
Sent: = 13. lokakuuta 2015 15:55
To: Christer Holmberg; = mmusic@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] = draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel - "a=3Dsetup" versus = "a=3Ddcsa:x setup"

 

Hello Christer,

Thank you for your = comments.

A dcsa embedded setup attribute does not have any MSRP = transport protocol related establishment role semantics.
But an MSRP = over data channel endpoint still needs to know its MSRP session = establishment role.
In some data channel to TCP (or TLS) transport = interworking cases, which are described in section 6,
this MSRP = session establishment role cannot always be derived from the DTLS/SCTP = establishment role.
In such cases a dcsa embedded setup attribute for = MSRP seems to be required.
However, in some other interworking cases, = and especially in end-to-end data channel cases the MSRP = session
establishment role could be tightly coupled with the = DTLS/SCTP establishment roles and hence with the "a=3Dsetup" = attribute.
If we don't allow the "a=3Dsetup" attribute to = also describe the MSRP session establishment role (if no = "a=3Ddcsa:x setup"
attribute is present), then we should = probably specify that a dcsa embedded setup attribute is mandatory =
for MSRP over data channel sessions.

For MSRP as = sub-protocol, would a mandatory "a=3Ddcsa:x = setup:<role>" attribute be = agreeable?

Thanks,
Juergen

On 10.10.2015 06:26, Christer Holmberg = wrote:

Hi.

= First, I think you suggest far too much text, but that is = editorial.

Second, as you say, the media level 'setup' attribute = is used to negotiate the SCTPoDTLS association establishment. But, I = don't think it should be used to negotiate the MSRP roles etc in case = the 'dcsa:x setup' is not present. The 'setup' attribute has nothing to = do with the protocol carried within the data channel - the reason we = defined the 'dsca' attribute was to be able to carry such = information.

Regards,

Christer

Sent from my Windows = Phone

From: = Juergen = Stoetzer-Bradler
Sent: = =E2=80=8E09= /=E2=80=8E10/=E2=80=8E2015 17:03
To: = mmusic@ietf.org
Subject: = [MMUSIC] = draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel - "a=3Dsetup" versus = "a=3Ddcsa:x setup"

Hello,

An MSRP over data channel related SDP = media description will have a media level = "a=3Dsetup:<role>" attribute and may = additionally
contain an "a=3Ddcsa" encapsulated setup = attribute "a=3Ddcsa:x setup:<role>". Current version = draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02
does not yet have any = text related to the setup attribute except for listing it as potential = dcsa encapsulated MSRP specific attribute.
As the media level = "a=3Dsetup" attribute is used to negotiation the DTLS and SCTP = establishment roles, and as the setup attribute is also used
in MSRP = over TCP cases to negotiate the "active" role of MSRP session = endpoints (RFCs 6135, 6714) we propose to explicitly describe
the = semantics of dcsa encapsulated setup attributes for MSRP over data = channel in draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel.

We propose = to add a new section 5.1.1.3 "Media Description Level setup = Attribute Versus Data Channel Specific setup Attribute"
after = section 5.1.1.2 ("Use of dcsa Attribute") and to extend = existing section 6 ("Gateway Configuration") with setup = attribute related procedures.

Would the following new section = 5.1.1.3 and modified section 6 be = agreeable?

Thanks,
Juergen

Proposed new Section = 5.1.1.3:

5.1.1.3.  Media Description Level setup Attribute Versus Data = Channel Specific setup Attribute

   The SDP setup = attribute, as introduced in [RFC4145], can be used in
   = WebRTC data channel related SDP media descriptions as a media = level
   attribute, which is directly associated with the = corresponding DTLS/
   SCTP "m" line.  In = this case the setup attribute is of the form
   = "a=3Dsetup:<role>", where <role> assumes values as = defined in
   [RFC4145].  Such a setup attribute is = then used as specified in
   [I-D.ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp] in = order to negotiate the establishment
   roles of the DTLS = connection and the SCTP association.

   Additionally, = the setup attribute can be embedded in a dcsa attribute
   = and hence can explicitly be associated with an MSRP session over = a
   specific data channel.  In such a case it is of = the form "a=3Ddcsa:x
   setup:<role>", with = x being the data channel's SCTP stream
   identifier.  = Such a dcsa attribute embedded setup attribute has no
   = relationship with the DTLS connection and SCTP = association
   establishment roles.

   = dcsa attribute embedded setup attributes are OPTIONAL for = MSRP
   sessions over data channels.

   If = an MSRP over data channel description contains a dcsa = embedded
   setup attribute, then this embedded setup = attribute is used to
   negotiate, which MSRP session = endpoint assumes the active role as per
   Section 4.2.2 of = [RFC6135] and Section 5.4 of [RFC4975].

   If an MSRP = over data channel description does not contain a dcsa
   = embedded setup attribute, then the media description level = "a=3Dsetup"
   attribute, which is associated = with the data channel's DTLS
   connection and SCTP = association, is used to negotiate, which MSRP
   session = endpoint assumes the active role.

   If an MSRP over = data channel endpoint wants to negotiate an active or
   = non-active MSRP session establishment role, which is different = from
   its DTLS connection and SCTP association = establishment role, then it
   MUST include a dcsa embedded = setup attribute for this MSRP session.
   In this case this = dcsa embedded setup attribute's value is different
   from = the value of the DTLS/SCTP "m" line's "a=3Dsetup" = attribute.


Proposed modified section 6:

6.  Gateway = Configuration

   This section describes the network = configuration where one MSRP
   endpoint uses data channels = as MSRP transport, the other MSRP
   endpoint uses TLS/TCP = connections as MSRP transport, and the two MSRP
   = endpoints interwork via an MSRP gateway.

   = Specifically, a gateway can be configured to interwork an = MSRP
   session over a data channel with a peer that does = not support data
   channel transport in one of two = ways.  In one model, the gateway
   performs as a MSRP = B2BUA to interwork all the procedures as necessary
   = between the endpoints.  No further specification is needed for = this
   model.

   Alternately, the gateway = can use CEMA procedures to provide transport
   level = interworking between MSRP endpoints using different = transport
   protocols as follows.

   When = the gateway performs transport level interworking between = MSRP
   endpoints, all of the procedures in Section 5 apply = to each peer,
   with the following = additions:

   o  The endpoint establishing an MSRP = session using data channel
      transport = SHALL NOT request inclusion of any relays, although = it
      MAY interoperate with a peer that = signals the use of relays.

   o  The gateway = receiving an SDP offer that includes a request = to
      negotiate an MSRP session on a data = channel can provide transport
      level = interworking in the same manner as a CEMA SBC by = forwarding
      TCP or TLS transport = parameters in a new "m" line with = the
      appropriate attributes within the = forwarded SDP offer.

      *  If = the received data channel side SDP offer contains a = dcsa
         embedded setup = attribute for the to be negotiated MSRP = session,
         then the = gateway interworks this dcsa embedded setup = attribute
         with the = media description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of = this
         MSRP session's = "m" line in its forwarded SDP = offer.

      *  If the received = data channel side SDP offer does not contain = a
         dcsa embedded = setup attribute for the to be negotiated = MSRP
         session, then = the gateway interworks the media = description
         level = "a=3Dsetup" attribute, which is directly associated = with
         the data = channel's DTLS/SCTP "m" line, with the = media
         description = level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of this MSRP = session's
         = "m" line in its forwarded SDP offer.

   = o  Similarly, a gateway receiving an SDP offer to negotiate an = MSRP
      session using TCP or TLS = transport with an endpoint that only
      = supports data channel transport for MSRP can provide = transport
      level interworking in the = same manner as a CEMA SBC by
      = establishing a new data channel for the MSRP session with = the
      target = endpoint.

      *  In this case the = gateway interworks the TCP or TLS = associated
         media = description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of the to = be
         negotiated MSRP = session's received "m" line either with = the
         media = description level "a=3Dsetup" attribute of the = data
         channel's = DTLS/SCTP "m" line, or with the dcsa embedded = setup
         attribute of = this MSRP session's new data = channel.

      *  If the gateway's = DTLS connection and SCTP = association
         = establishment role on its data channel side is equal to = the
         = "a=3Dsetup" attribute's value of the received MSRP over TCP = or
         TLS "m" = line, then the gateway MAY add a dcsa embedded = setup
         attribute to = the description of the MSRP session's new = data
         channel in its = generated data channel side = offer.
         = Alternatively, in this case the gateway MAY omit adding such = a
         dcsa embedded = setup attribute to the description of the = MSRP
         session's new = data channel in its generated data channel = side
         offer.  = Otherwise, if the gateway's DTLS connection and = SCTP
         association = establishment role is different from the MSRP = over
         TCP or TLS = associated received "a=3Dsetup" attribute's = value,
         then the = gateway MUST add a dcsa embedded setup attribute = to
         the description = of the MSRP session's new data channel in = its
         generated data = channel side offer.

      *  If the = gateway adds a dcsa embedded setup attribute = associated
         with this = MSRP session to its data channel side SDP offer, = then
         the value of = this embedded setup attribute MUST be equal to = the
         value of the = "a=3Dsetup" attribute, which is associated with = this
         MSRP session's = "m" line in the received TCP or TLS side = SDP
         = offer.

 

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