Re: [MMUSIC] Update on Orlando time for human language draft discussion

[Randall Gellens <[e-mail]>]

At 10:31 PM +0100 3/10/13, Gunnar Hellstrom wrote:

>  On 2013-03-10 23:02, Randall Gellens wrote:
>>  At 9:27 PM +0100 3/10/13, Gunnar Hellstrom wrote:
>>>   Yes, it will be a balance between complexity and usefulness.
>>>   Too little complexity - not sufficient to express the common cases.
>>>   Too much complexity - No one will bother registering their profile.
>>>
>>>   I see a need to declare and negotiate need, preference and 
>>> capability to use different languages and modalities, and the 
>>> declaration need to be directional.
>>>
>>>   Imagined example:
>>>   I prefer to talk English, and I have some capability to talk French
>>>   I Prefer to talk, but I am capable of typing
>>>   I Need to get text in English or French
>>>   I have some benefit of getting spoken English or French, but I 
>>> cannot accept that as the only channel for language perception.
>>>
>>>   If I want to have a conversation with someone who only has an 
>>> audio terminal, and can talk and understand spoken French, an 
>>> evaluation of our needs would insert a captioned telephony 
>>> service in French in the call typing a French transcription of 
>>> the spoken French my callee talks to me.
>>
>>  If possible, I think it may be better to keep service negotiation 
>> distinct from language negotiation.  Otherwise things get very 
>> complex.
>>
>  That was just a use case.
>
>  Do you mean that we should divide it like this:
>
>   Imagined example in a call from A to B.
>   A prefer to talk English, and A has some capability to talk French
>   A Prefers to talk, but A is capable of typing
>   A Needs to get text in English or French
>   A has some benefit of getting spoken English or French, but A 
> cannot accept that as the only channel for language perception.
>
>   A wants to have a conversation with B who declares only an ability 
> to talk and understand spoken French.
>
>  An evaluation of the needs, preferences and capabilities of A and B 
> would result in that the call is not possible because we have 
> common capabilities only in the direction from A to the B.
>  In the return path, from B to A, the only option it to receive 
> spoken French from the B, while A is depending on getting written 
> English or Written French.
>
>  -----
>
>  This information an then be used in a separate service request for 
> getting a service C that adds rapid conversion of spoken French to 
> typed French in the path from A to B, still letting the spoken 
> French also pass over to A.


It's very easy to add complexity in order to solve more aspects of 
the problem.  I think we need to work very hard to keep this 
mechanism, at least initially, very simple.


>>>>>
>>>>>>     > -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>    From: [e-mail] 
>>>>>>> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf
>>>>>>>    Of Harald Alvestrand
>>>>>>>    Sent: 10 March 2013 15:07
>>>>>>>    To: Randall Gellens
>>>>>>>    Cc: Ari Keranen; [e-mail]; Alexey Melnikov; Gunnar 
>>>>>>> Hellstrom; DRAGE,
>>>>>>>    Keith (Keith); Peter Saint-Andre; 
>>>>>>> [e-mail];
>>>>>>>    Flemming Andreasen; Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) Tschofenig; 
>>>>>>> Peter Saint-Andre;
>>>>>>>    Brian Rosen; [e-mail]
>>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Update on Orlando time for human language draft
>>>>>>>    discussion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Sorry for barging in late on this thread, but quick questions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    - what's the right mailing list to post to on this one?
>>>>>>>    - have everyone read RFC 3282 (the standalone 
>>>>>>> "accept-language" spec)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Seems to me the desired semantic is more accept-language than
>>>>>>>    content-language.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    On 03/10/2013 03:38 PM, Randall Gellens wrote:
>>>>>>>    > Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>    >
>>>>>>>    > Thursday lunch (11:30-1:00) it is.  I'll make a reservation at The
>>>>>>>    > Tropicale (the cafe in the Caribe Royal hotel attached to the
>>>>>>>    > convention center).  Please let me know if you can make it so I can
>>>>>>>    > make sure we have a large enough table.
>>>>>>>    >
>>>>>>>    > Thank you.
>>>>>>>    >
>>>>>>>    >
>>>>>>>    >>  Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>    >>
>>>>>>>    >>  It looks like Thursday lunch (11:30-1:00) works well for everyone
>>>>>>>    >> who has responded so far.  Let's plan on that for now.
>>>>>>>    >>
>>>>>>>    >>  At 9:35 AM -0700 3/9/13, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>>>>>>    >>
>>>>>>>    >>>   It looks like Thursday lunch would
>>>>>>>    >>>   work well.
>>>>>>>    >>>
>>>>>>>    >>>   On 3/5/13 4:47 AM, Randall Gellens wrote:
>>>>>>>    >>>>   Hi all,
>>>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>>>    >>>>   I created a Doodle poll to see if we can find a time 
>>>>>>> in Orlando
>>>>>>>    >>>> to meet
>>>>>>>    >>>>   face to face.
>>>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>>>    >>>>   Doodle poll for time at Orlando to discuss open 
>>>>>>> issues and moving
>>>>>>>    >>>>   forward with Human Language Negotiation:
>>>>>>>    >>>> http://doodle.com/uwedikez6etwsf39
>>>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>>>    >>>>   Link to current version (-02) of draft:
>>>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>>>    >>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gellens-negotiating-human-
>>>>>>>    language-02.txt
>>>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>>>    >>>>
>>>>>>>    >>
>>>>>>>    >>
>>>>>>>    >>  --
>>>>>>>    >>  Randall Gellens
>>>>>>>    >>  Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak 
>>>>>>> for myself
>>>>>>>    only
>>>>>>>    >>  -------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
>>>>>>>    >>  A child of five would understand this.  Send somebody to
>>>>>>>    >>  fetch a child of five.        --Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup"
>>>>>>>    >
>>>>>>>    >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly selected tag: ---------------
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong.                            --H.L. Mencken