Re: [Mops] FW: Multicast for the Web (and WebTransport in particular)

["Holland, Jake" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Spencer,

mops is pretty clearly the wrong discussion venue :) (moved to bcc, so reply if you’d like to be on the thread...)

Thus far mboned has been my idea of the closest match, but I think draft-krose-multicast-security gets a little hard to argue it’s in scope.

And really, I think AMBI and to a lesser extent DORMS is in the same boat.  Although we got some early advice it could be done in mboned with just some review from the security area due to not using any novel crypto and the general approach being a well-established authentication strategy, it does touch on some security questions that are kind of a stretch for mboned, especially when we try to consider it in a web security requirements.  And even more so if we want to bring back ALTA at some point (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-krose-mboned-alta/).

Previously there has been a much heavier routing area overlap than security area overlap in mboned, and you’d have to look back to msec (and maybe some rmt) to have a closer match in membership.  And a lot of the people who might be interested in discussing multicast’s security implications in a web security context might reasonably be much less interested in some of the other mboned docs, and vice versa...

I thought the best approach would probably be “reopen msec”.  Last time we took that to secdispatch (with alta, maybe at 106 or so?) they said to come back with more people, so that’s what I was trying to do for November, if webtransport didn’t want us.

Best,
Jake

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri,2021-07-30 at 7:10 AM
To: Kyle Rose <[e-mail]>
Cc: "Holland, Jake" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Mops] FW: Multicast for the Web (and WebTransport in particular)

Hi, Kyle,

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 8:58 AM Kyle Rose <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Given the existence of the new W3C multicast community group, one important consideration at this early stage of work is to make sure we develop a consistent, coherent vision. I would be in favor of a single mailing list until/unless we get to a point where responsibility can be assigned to groups working independently.

Makes sense to me, even if it's only used for coordination, and all of the technical work goes somewhere else.

Do you and/or Jake have thoughts about whether that needs to be a new mailing list, or whether something that already exists is fit for purpose?

Best,

Spencer

Kyle

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 9:41 AM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi, Jake,

On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 4:59 PM Holland, Jake <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi Spencer,

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Date: Thu,2021-07-29 at 12:36 PM
>
> This was a very interesting side meeting.

Thanks!

> Could I ask where you expect discussion to happen, and
> where the notes would be posted?

I was thinking I'd send a follow-up message to mops and
webtransport with a summary and links to notes and the video
once it's posted (there may be a slight delay).

If we establish an IETF mailing list or venue, I guess I’ll
probably also send one more follow-up message to mops,
webtransport, mboned, and possibly ietf to invite interested
parties to join, unless I get different guidance.

If you want to comment on the IETF drafts or stay in an IETF
context for this, there are several relevant drafts that have
been adopted in mboned, where comment would be very welcome:
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned__;!!GjvTz_vk!CssogoPpbhVP1G6MyVypmxoKx6Ub2f44l_L9KXdVt4a9KyZvYUL3Uh2xv7u3NBM$>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-dorms/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-dorms/__;!!GjvTz_vk!CssogoPpbhVP1G6MyVypmxoKx6Ub2f44l_L9KXdVt4a9KyZvYUL3Uh2xgA4v7bE$>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-cbacc/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-cbacc/__;!!GjvTz_vk!CssogoPpbhVP1G6MyVypmxoKx6Ub2f44l_L9KXdVt4a9KyZvYUL3Uh2x_D09FJ4$>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-ambi/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-ambi/__;!!GjvTz_vk!CssogoPpbhVP1G6MyVypmxoKx6Ub2f44l_L9KXdVt4a9KyZvYUL3Uh2xcQ6xheg$>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-mnat/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mboned-mnat/__;!!GjvTz_vk!CssogoPpbhVP1G6MyVypmxoKx6Ub2f44l_L9KXdVt4a9KyZvYUL3Uh2xiOdIYdA$>

(NB: I'll also be presenting on these in the mboned meeting
tomorrow.)

If you want to get involved in the overall project including
the web-specific aspect of it or to discuss other topics that
might be tangential to mboned, I'd also encourage joining the
W3C list:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multicast/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multicast/__;!!GjvTz_vk!CssogoPpbhVP1G6MyVypmxoKx6Ub2f44l_L9KXdVt4a9KyZvYUL3Uh2xsNtErYE$>

If you're able to participate in W3C, that group is meeting monthly
on first Wednesdays, with the next scheduled meeting on August
4th at 7:30am Pacific time (2:30pm UTC).  The details are here: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multicast/2021Jul/0004.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multicast/2021Jul/0004.html__;!!GjvTz_vk!CssogoPpbhVP1G6MyVypmxoKx6Ub2f44l_L9KXdVt4a9KyZvYUL3Uh2xUZBGgWo$>

Best regards,
Jake

This is all very helpful! Thanks for the quick response.

Do you think a mailing list would be useful for coordinating things among various venues? If so, please let me know - I know how to request that.

It sounds like you may not need a dedicated venue before IETF 112, but if you decide that you do, please let me know - I'd love to help with that too.

Best,

Spencer
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