Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)
Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org> Wed, 23 October 2019 16:29 UTC
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From: Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org>
To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com>, "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
CC: "mops@ietf.org" <mops@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:29:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)
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Do you prefer MOPSes? :-) S. (https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/mopses-order) From: Mops <mops-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com> Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 09:28 To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> Cc: "mops@ietf.org" <mops@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Spencer Wrote... ...but I hope all the MOPSters ... Spencer's comments are good, except for "MOPSters" - that needs to not ever become a thing. -glenn ________________________________ From: Mops <mops-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <evyncke@cisco.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 11:40 PM To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>; The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> Cc: mops@ietf.org <mops@ietf.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Spencer, Thank you for your detailed reply. I can only support everything you wrote 😉 Regards -éric From: Mops <mops-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 02:38 To: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> Cc: "mops@ietf.org" <mops@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Dear IESG, Chartering MOPS as an IETF working group seems to be the Right Thing To Do. I agree with previous discussions that some topics may not be at the engineering level, but discussions on those topics will have a launching pad, no matter where they end up, which will be a good thing. I'm sure everyone involved is aware of the struggles we've had to obtain inputs and participation from operators (for longer than I've been active at IETF). This is pushing that effort down a level (from IAB and IESG interactions with NANOG, RIPE, and GSMA, among other places, over the past three or four years), and I think that's a good thing as well. I saw discussion about what gets published and what doesn't get published outside MOPS, and I would encourage the responsible AD to be flexible as MOPS figures that out - we have had discussions with NOGs about Best Current Operational Practices/BCOP documents, so the possible set of choices MOPS could consider might be broader than the usual IETF working group. The text in the proposed charter on liaison relationships is fine, as far as it goes, but I hope all the MOPSters remember that the IETF cooperates best when it and another organization have overlapping participants - that's even more informal than "informal liaisons". The more that can be encouraged, the better for MOPS. (Leslie will understand this very well, from her time as IAB chair) I hope I'm able to contribute to this working group, if it's approved by the IESG. Thanks for moving forward on this topic. Best wishes, Spencer On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 11:25 AM The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org<mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org>> wrote: A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Operations and Management Area. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org<mailto:iesg@ietf.org>) by 2019-10-28. Media OPerationS (mops) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Proposed WG Chairs: Leslie Daigle <ldaigle@thinkingcat.com<mailto:ldaigle@thinkingcat.com>> Assigned Area Director: Éric Vyncke <evyncke@cisco.com<mailto:evyncke@cisco.com>> Operations and Management Area Directors: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net<mailto:warren@kumari.net>> Ignas Bagdonas <ibagdona@gmail.com<mailto:ibagdona@gmail.com>> Technical advisors: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net<mailto:warren@kumari.net>> Mailing list: Address: mops@ietf.org<mailto:mops@ietf.org> To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$> Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJoIeSw3$> Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGH0al3Fr$> Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJM6sGXt$> Internet- and Internet-protocol-delivered media is widespread, leading to significant technology development across industries not traditionally thought of as Internet technology developers or operators, as well as considerable quantities of traffic on local and transit networks. The focus of MOPS is on identifying areas where existing protocols and/or networks are challenged by these updated requirements. MOPS will solicit input on operational issues and practices; existing and proposed technologies related to the deployment, engineering, and operation of media streaming and manipulation protocols and procedures in the global Internet; and inter-domain and within-domain networking. In the context of this working group, media is considered to include the transport of video, audio, objects and any combination thereof, possibly non-sequentially. The scope is media and media protocols’ interactions with the network, but not the technologies of control protocols or media formats. MOPS provides a venue for both video industry and Internet engineering experts to engage in discussion of video technology’s requirements of networking standards, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology in video. Where new protocols are needed, MOPS will help identify candidate venues for their development. The goals of MOPS include documenting existing protocol and operational issues with media on the Internet, and identifying requirements for potential IETF work. The general process of elaboration through documentation will be for issues to be identified (on the mailing list) and presentations made at WG meetings. When topics merit more coherent documentation, MOPS will adopt working group documents to capture the information in Internet-Drafts. If the working group consensus is that the material of the Internet-Draft is generally useful for archival purposes, the WG will seek publication of the work items as RFCs. At any point — from early discussion of topics, through later documentation stages — MOPS may identify a more appropriate WG for the matter and/or document, and dispatch it. With that in mind, MOPS will: 1/ Solicit regular updates from other media technology developing consortia/standards bodies working with IETF-developed protocols. 2/ Solicit input from network operators and users to identify operational issues with media delivery in and across networks, and determine solutions or workarounds to those issues. 3/ Solicit discussion and documentation of the issues and opportunities in media acquisition and delivery, and of the resulting protocols and technologies developed outside the IETF. 4/ Document operational requirements for media acquisition (for example, from cameras and recording devices) and delivery. 5/ Develop operational information to aid in operation of media technologies in the global Internet. These activities should document media operational experience, including global Internet, inter-domain and within-domain operations. In all cases of working with other organizations mentioned above, MOPS will work with existing liaison managers where the IETF has them, and informal connections with other organizations otherwise. If new formal liaison relationships are required, MOPS will work with the IAB to help establish them. Media operational and deployment issues with specific protocols or technologies (such as Applications, Transport Protocols, Routing Protocols, DNS or Sub-IP Protocols) remain the responsibility of the groups or areas responsible for those protocols or technologies. However, the MOPS Working Group may provide input to those areas/groups, as needed, and cooperate with those areas/groups in reviewing solutions to MOPS operational and deployment problems. There must be a continuing expression of interest for the Working Group to work on a particular work item. If there is no longer sufficient interest in the Working Group in a work item, the item may be removed from the list of Working Group items. The IESG is establishing this working group on an experimental basis and intends to review it, for rechartering to continue or else closure, in 2 years. Milestones: Feb 2020 - Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming media Feb 2020 - Initial draft operational considerations for low latency streaming video applications Mar 2020 - Draft documenting Streaming Video Alliance (SVA) reliance on IETF protocols Mar 2020 - Draft documenting Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) protocol reliance on IETF protocols Jul 2020 - Last-call document on Streaming Video Alliance (SVA) reliance on IETF protocols (including explicit outreach to SVA) Jul 2020 - Last-call document on Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) protocol reliance on IETF protocols (including explicit outreach to SMPTE) Jul 2020 - Revised draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming media Jul 2020 - Revised draft operational considerations for low latency streaming video applications Nov 2020 - Last-call document on edge network considerations for streaming media Nov 2020 - Last-call document on operational considerations for low latency streaming video applications Nov 2020 - Develop work items specific to media acquisition and delivery Nov 2021 - IESG to decide whether continue, re-charter or close MOPS WG -- Mops mailing list Mops@ietf.org<mailto:Mops@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$>
- [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) The IESG
- Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)
- Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Stephan Wenger
- Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops) Joerg Ott