Re: [Mops] Draft minutes from 2020-Apr interim
Leslie Daigle <ldaigle@thinkingcat.com> Fri, 08 May 2020 16:19 UTC
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From: Leslie Daigle <ldaigle@thinkingcat.com>
To: mops@ietf.org
Cc: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>
Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 12:18:45 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Mops] Draft minutes from 2020-Apr interim
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Thanks for the minutes feedback, Spencer! FYI for everyone — Kyle updated and posted the minutes on the data tracker site, so we are now complete for the virtual interim meeting. Leslie. P.S.: Because you wanted to go look: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-mops-01/session/mops On 22 Apr 2020, at 10:45, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, Kyle, > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:52 AM Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org> wrote: > >> I've pasted the draft minutes from our Ides of April interim below. >> Thanks >> again to Olufemi Komolafe for volunteering! Please review and provide >> clarifications and/or corrections to the chairs. Otherwise, we'll be >> posting the minutes to the data tracker in a week at which point it >> will be >> part of your Permanent Record. >> > > Thanks for the excellent start on minutes. I have a couple of notes > below. > > Best, > > Spencer > > >> Kyle >> >> >> >> >> >> Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG >> >> April 2020 Virtual Interim >> Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC >> >> Webex details below >> >> Agenda >> >> Intro >> >> Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) >> >> Review of concrete work items: >> >> [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for >> streaming >> media >> Jake Holland >> draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons >> Github - >> https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons >> Accepting comments via GitHub issues >> Presented update on draft >> Discussion on “Soliciting Contributions - Proposed Template” >> + have in current draft or perhaps produce new draft (BCP?) >> Matt Stock: Like template and sees potential >> Jake Holland: Appreciates feedback. Potential to write diffrent >> BCPs, >> targeted at diffrent audience >> Spencer Dawkins: Aim is for draft to not only call out potential bad >> things but rather try to be actionable, hence why mitigations are >> solicited >> Glenn Deen: +1 on collecting mitigations and sees potential in this >> highlighting potential areas of interest/work. Mitigations are only a >> first >> step, and where there are really egregious problems the mitigation >> may be a >> temporary approach and the issue may trigger additional work relevant >> to >> the IETF. >> Matt Stock: Mitigations may not be black/white but rather may involve >> tradeoffs which should be called out to inform decision-making >> Leslie Daigle: Maybe collect the issues as a starting point >> Spencer Dawkins: Thanks to both Glenn and Matt for these excellent >> suggestions >> > Updates from elsewhere >> >> Updates from other work >> [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG >> Described significant impact COVID-19 having on video traffic seeing >> by >> carriers >> Discussed ongoing and potential work of interest in SVA and potential >> new >> working groups >> Glenn Deen: Recent work in SVA working group on media use cases for >> multicast streaming that may be of interest >> Jake Holland: Work looks interesting. What does engagement with SVA >> look >> like? SVA members commenting on IETF mailing list? Interested to >> hear more >> about the multicast work >> Sanjay Mishra: Perhaps bring back updates/proble statements etc from >> SVA >> to IETF, IETF can work on these items and perhaps SVA consumes the >> output >> Spencer Dawkins: Thanks for discussion on COVID-19 impact on video >> traffic. >> > > This could be "Thanks for discussion on COVID-19 impact on video > traffic, > with references. draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons now has a section on > "Unpredictable Usage Profiles", and the authors have been talking > about > mentioning COVID-19 as well. > > >> Glenn Deen: Address potential issue regarding IPR raised by Jake >> Holland. >> There should be no issues - SVA docs are published on the web for all >> to >> read and IP issues shouldn't enter into MOPS working with SVA use >> csses. If >> still concerned, please come talk to glenn.deen@nbcuni.com - I'm on >> the >> SVA board. >> >> >> >> [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE >> >> >> [15min] Maxim Sharabayko SRT — see >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sh arabayko-mops-srt/ , posted >> on >> MOPS mailing list >> Overview of potential benefits SRT >> Jake Holland: Questions about protocol and operational use. Suitable >> for >> contribution/distribution or livestreaming to end-users? >> Max Sharabayko: SRT is well-suited for media >> Marc Cymontkowski: Use of UDP means not SRT is not direct >> What other protocols were considered and what was deficient about >> them? >> Marc Cymontkowski: Original goal was to transmit live stream over >> public >> internet. Came to problem with clean slate and started with UDP and >> added >> enhancements to make it more suited for real-time traffic. >> Kyle Rose: With hindsight, starting off with RTP may have been a >> better >> option at the start, a few years ago. >> Glenn Deen: Comcast use SRT significantly and so keen for this work >> to >> succeed. What are the current priorities for RTP? >> Marc Cymontkowski: Redundancy, balancing data of multiple links, >> congestion control >> Glenn Denn: Congestion control of interest - as playing nicely with >> the >> network is in everyone's best interest >> Leslie Daigle: Potential interest in this WG in this protocol. >> Detailed >> protocol machinery discussions will be done in other WGs but MOPS >> interested >> Spencer Dawkins: An Independent Stream draft on SRT as it exists >> today >> will be of great value to MOPS, because we would have a good >> reference for >> the protocol as we start to make recommendations on use of SRT for >> streaming operators. That was the recommendation for a first step >> from >> Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood it, although the current >> IESG >> might change that recommendation. >> > > My last sentence would be clearer as "That was the recommendation for > a > first step from Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood it, > although the > final direction would be up to the responsible area directors".. > >> >> Alex Gouaillard: Discussion in other WGs regarding SRT, especially >> concerns regarding security >> - When presented at IETF dispatch, concerned were expressed by long >> time >> IETF contributors like Eric Rescorla, Colin Perkins, Martin Thompson >> discussion here: >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ekMWlMXch132tvri2BwrnnULzuw/ >> - The question was just about the status of those discussions as, >> given >> the position of the people asking with respect to security, media >> transport, QUIC, SRTP, at IETF, those questions will come back at one >> point. >> - One of the question raised on the Dispatch thread was also, why at >> mops >> and not in ART, since it looks more in scope for the later. >> > > that's probably "for the latter". > > >> - Another question was regarding security definition (eric/martin) >> - another question, more generic, is why a new protocol when it looks >> like >> webrtc / QUIC are a good match to the announced goal (nat traversal, >> TLS >> 1.3, CC, BWE, ...) >> => discussion on dispatch would have concluded by a request for a >> document, and thus is pending this document availability. >> >> >> >> Operational Issues Observed >> [15min] Jake Holland — Experience making the world safe for >> interdomain >> multicast >> Discussed some of the challenges/opportunities with interdomain >> multicast >> Outlined goals for 2020 & eager to collaborate in trials/POCs so >> please >> reach out if interested >> Leslie Daigle: Interesting overview >> >> >> AOB >> [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N >> 18620) >> Spencer Dawkins: Spoke to Stephan Wegner, the IAB liaison manager for >> SC >> 29/WG 11, on Monday; he had no further updates beyond what was in the >> original liaison statement they sent to IETF. >> >> Leslie Daigle: Git repo set up for WG >> Kyle Rose: Repo will be used when documents are adopted. Not >> mandatory >> but convenient for collaboration. Will send URL on list shortly >> >> >> -- >> Mops mailing list >> Mops@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops >> > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com -------------------------------------------------------------------
- [Mops] Draft minutes from 2020-Apr interim Kyle Rose
- Re: [Mops] Draft minutes from 2020-Apr interim Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Mops] Draft minutes from 2020-Apr interim Leslie Daigle