Re: [mpls-tp] [mpls][PWE3][AHMPLS-TP] poll on draft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt

Hi John,
I am not talking about draft-he, only talking about statement "Viz, any L2 
technology will go through a PW and PWs already have a CSF equivalent."
Actually, in current defined MPLS in IETF, the statement is not true. 
There is a case that L2 technology will go through LSP, not PW. In 
draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-mcast, section 14.1.2, you can find that case. 
However this case is for P2MP LSP, not P2P. I think draft-he does not 
include P2MP LSP.

Regards
Lizhong

> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 06:57:40 -0800
> From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
> Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3]   [AHMPLS-TP]   Re:[mpls-tp]
>    pollondraft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> To: "Manuel.Paul@telekom.de" <Manuel.Paul@telekom.de>de>,
>    "lieven.levrau@alcatel-lucent.com" 
<lieven.levrau@alcatel-lucent.com>om>,
>    "rajiva@cisco.com" <rajiva@cisco.com>om>, "yljiang@huawei.com"
>    <yljiang@huawei.com>
> Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>rg>,   "nurit.sprecher@nsn.com"
>    <nurit.sprecher@nsn.com>om>,   "ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int"
>    <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>nt>,   "pwe3@ietf.org" <pwe3@ietf.org>rg>,
>    "mpls-tp@ietf.org" <mpls-tp@ietf.org>
> Message-ID:
>    <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB33316398C549DE26@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I think you are missing the point.  Viz, any L2 technology will go 
> through a PW and PWs already have a CSF equivalent.  The other TP 
> clients are IP and MPLS, and they have their own detection mechanisms. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf 
Of
> > Manuel.Paul@telekom.de
> > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:40 AM
> > To: lieven.levrau@alcatel-lucent.com; rajiva@cisco.com;
> > yljiang@huawei.com
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; nurit.sprecher@nsn.com; ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int;
> > pwe3@ietf.org; mpls-tp@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re:[mpls-tp] pollondraft-he-
> > mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> > 
> > 
> > Agree with Lieven.
> > 
> > We need to avoid making predictions about the capability & complexity
> > (& even existence) of a certain client layer technology (most of all
> > considering terminal nodes connected by attachment circuits), but 
still
> > provide effective fault notifications in packet transport 
applications.
> > Herefore, IMHO, CSF is helpful and required.
> > 
> > Of course, we also strongly need to avoid confusing control plane and
> > data plane tasks (e.g. relying on LDP session timeouts for fault
> > detection).
> > 
> > Best regards
> > Manuel
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN)
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 2:17 PM
> > > To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Yuanlong Jiang
> > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Sprecher,Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon); MPLS-TP 
ad
> > hoc
> > > team; pwe3@ietf.org; mpls-tp@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re:[mpls-tp] pollondraft-he-
> > mpls-
> > > tp-csf-03.txt
> > >
> > > provocative statement alert- We should as we are talking about MPLS-
> > TP and
> > > not about IP network layer.
> > >
> > > ./
> > > Lieven
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
> > > Sent: 02 December 2010 14:14
> > > To: Yuanlong Jiang
> > > Cc: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon); MPLS-TP ad hoc team;
> > > mpls@ietf.org; mpls-tp@ietf.org; pwe3@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] pollondraft-he-
> > mpls-
> > > tp-csf-03.txt
> > >
> > > Are we ignoring the existence of BFD altogether?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Rajiv
> > >
> > > Sent from my Phone
> > >
> > > On Dec 1, 2010, at 8:19 PM, Yuanlong Jiang <yljiang@huawei.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > Typically, IP will only detect a failure in a time scale of
> > minutes.
> > > > That is one reason why MPLS-TP OAM and Protection & Switching is
> > needed.
> > > > I am not sure which mechanism in MPLS provides the CSF-like
> > capability,
> > > could you give more hints?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Yuanlong
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John E Drake"
> > <jdrake@juniper.net>
> > > > To: "Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)"
> > <nurit.sprecher@nsn.com>om>;
> > > "Yuanlong Jiang" <yljiang@huawei.com>om>; "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>nu>;
> > > <mpls@ietf.org>rg>; <mpls-tp@ietf.org>rg>; <pwe3@ietf.org>rg>; "MPLS-TP ad 
hoc
> > > team" <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:29 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll 
ondraft-he-mpls-
> > tp-
> > > csf-03.txt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Nurit,
> > > >>
> > > >> As I understand the original requirement from Malcolm Betts, this
> > > capability is required for those cases in which a client is unable 
to
> > > detect the failure of its peer.  In MPLS-TP, we have three clients,
> > PW, IP,
> > > and MPLS, and I am quite sure that IP and MPLS clients can take care
> > of
> > > themselves wrt detecting peer failure.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> John
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
> > > >>> [mailto:nurit.sprecher@nsn.com]
> > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:47 AM
> > > >>> To: John E Drake; Yuanlong Jiang; Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org;
> > mpls-
> > > >>> tp@ietf.org; pwe3@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> > > >>> Subject: RE: [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll ondraft-he-
> > mpls-tp-
> > > >>> csf-03.txt
> > > >>>
> > > >>> But what about other client services... e.g. adapted by service-
> > LSP
> > > and
> > > >>> not by PWE3?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of
> > > >>> ext John E Drake
> > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 2:35 PM
> > > >>> To: Yuanlong Jiang; Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-
> > tp@ietf.org;
> > > >>> pwe3@ietf.org; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll
> > > >>> ondraft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I am not convinced.  It seems like it belongs in the Pseudo Wire
> > > >>> application, which already has this capability.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> > From: Yuanlong Jiang [mailto:yljiang@huawei.com]
> > > >>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:07 AM
> > > >>> > To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-tp@ietf.org;
> > pwe3@ietf.org;
> > > >>> > MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> > > >>> > Subject: [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll on draft-he-mpls-tp-
> > csf-
> > > >>> 03.txt
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Support.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > I believe this mechanism is needed in MPLS-TP.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Thanks
> > > >>> > Yuanlong
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>> > From: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>
> > > >>> > To: <mpls@ietf.org>rg>; <mpls-tp@ietf.org>rg>; <pwe3@ietf.org>rg>;
> > "MPLS-TP
> > > ad
> > > >>> > hoc
> > > >>> > team" <ahmpls-tp@lists.itu.int>
> > > >>> > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:56 PM
> > > >>> > Subject: [mpls-tp] poll on draft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > > all,
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > this is to start a two week poll on making
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-he-mpls-tp-csf-
> > 03.txt
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > a mpls working group document.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Please send comments support/not support to the mpls-tp
> > maililng
> > > >>> > list.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > The poll ends Thursday Dec 2, 2010.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > /Loa
> > > >>> > > --
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Loa Andersson                         email:
> > > >>> > loa.andersson@ericsson.com
> > > >>> > > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@pi.nu
> > > >>> > > Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 
13
> > > >>> > >                                              +46 767 72 92 
13
> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > > mpls-tp mailing list
> > > >>> > > mpls-tp@ietf.org
> > > >>> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-tp
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> pwe3 mailing list
> > > >>> pwe3@ietf.org
> > > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > pwe3 mailing list
> > > > pwe3@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mpls mailing list
> > > mpls@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mpls mailing list
> > > mpls@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
> 

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