Re: [mpls-tp] [PWE3] [mpls] [AHMPLS-TP]Re: pollondraft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt

[<[e-mail]>]

In-line please. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On 
> Behalf Of [e-mail]
> Sent: 02 December 2010 14:46
> To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; 
> [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; 
> [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [PWE3] [mpls] [AHMPLS-TP]Re: [mpls-tp] 
> pollondraft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> 
> John, 
> 
> I am concerned that this discussion is fuelled by some 
> misunderstandings. 
> 
> No matter what OAM is used in the packet transport layer 
> ("server layer" if you want), we cannot expect that to be 
> present in the client layer.

NH=> So what?  The client layer MUST be independent of the server in all respects...not just DP OAM.
> 
> Of course, in case the client layer is MPLS-TP too, all the 
> fancy OAM (e.g. CC/CV/RDI)

NH=> 'Fancy OAM'...good heavens...CV+RDI are the absolute minimum....and we should keep the defect detection OAM as simple/sparse as possible).  Unnecessary (or 'fancy' if you prefer) OAM are things like AIS in co-ps and TCM stuff.

regards, Neil

 could be in use there as well (but 
> out of administrative control of the transport operator).
> 
> Best Regards
> Manuel 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] 
> On Behalf 
> > Of John E Drake
> > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 2:45 PM
> > To: LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN); RajivAsati (rajiva); Yuanlong Jiang
> > Cc: [e-mail]; Sprecher,Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon); 
> MPLS-TP ad 
> > hoc team; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP]Re: [mpls-tp] 
> > pollondraft-he-mpls- tp-csf-03.txt
> > 
> > That statement is incorrect.  MPLS-TP uses BFD for CC/CV/RDI
> > (http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-cc-cv-rdi/)
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [e-mail] 
> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf 
> > > Of LEVRAU, LIEVEN (LIEVEN)
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 5:17 AM
> > > To: Rajiv Asati (rajiva); Yuanlong Jiang
> > > Cc: [e-mail]; Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod 
> HaSharon); MPLS-TP 
> > > ad hoc team; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] 
> pollondraft-he- 
> > > mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> > >
> > > provocative statement alert- We should as we are talking about 
> > > MPLS-TP and not about IP network layer.
> > >
> > > ./
> > > Lieven
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [e-mail] 
> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf 
> > > Of Rajiv Asati (rajiva)
> > > Sent: 02 December 2010 14:14
> > > To: Yuanlong Jiang
> > > Cc: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon); MPLS-TP ad hoc team; 
> > > [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] 
> pollondraft-he- 
> > > mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> > >
> > > Are we ignoring the existence of BFD altogether?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Rajiv
> > >
> > > Sent from my Phone
> > >
> > > On Dec 1, 2010, at 8:19 PM, Yuanlong Jiang 
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > Typically, IP will only detect a failure in a time 
> scale of minutes.
> > > > That is one reason why MPLS-TP OAM and Protection & Switching is
> > > needed.
> > > > I am not sure which mechanism in MPLS provides the CSF-like
> > > capability, could you give more hints?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Yuanlong
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John E Drake"
> > > <[e-mail]>
> > > > To: "Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)"
> > > <[e-mail]>om>; "Yuanlong Jiang" <[e-mail]>om>; 
> > > "Loa Andersson" <[e-mail]>nu>; <[e-mail]>rg>; <[e-mail]>rg>; 
> > > <[e-mail]>rg>; "MPLS-TP ad hoc team" <[e-mail]>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:29 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll 
> > > > ondraft-he-mpls-
> > > tp-csf-03.txt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Nurit,
> > > >>
> > > >> As I understand the original requirement from Malcolm 
> Betts, this
> > > capability is required for those cases in which a client 
> is unable 
> > > to detect the failure of its peer.  In MPLS-TP, we have three 
> > > clients, PW, IP, and MPLS, and I am quite sure that IP and MPLS 
> > > clients can take care of themselves wrt detecting peer failure.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >> John
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon) 
> > > >>> [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:47 AM
> > > >>> To: John E Drake; Yuanlong Jiang; Loa Andersson; 
> [e-mail];
> > > mpls-
> > > >>> [e-mail]; [e-mail]; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> > > >>> Subject: RE: [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll 
> > > >>> ondraft-he-mpls-
> > > tp-
> > > >>> csf-03.txt
> > > >>>
> > > >>> But what about other client services... e.g. adapted by 
> > > >>> service-LSP
> > > and
> > > >>> not by PWE3?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On
> > > Behalf Of
> > > >>> ext John E Drake
> > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 2:35 PM
> > > >>> To: Yuanlong Jiang; Loa Andersson; [e-mail]; 
> > > >>> [e-mail]; [e-mail]; MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PWE3] [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll 
> > > >>> ondraft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I am not convinced.  It seems like it belongs in the 
> Pseudo Wire 
> > > >>> application, which already has this capability.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> > From: Yuanlong Jiang [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > > >>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:07 AM
> > > >>> > To: Loa Andersson; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> > > [e-mail];
> > > >>> > MPLS-TP ad hoc team
> > > >>> > Subject: [AHMPLS-TP] Re: [mpls-tp] poll on 
> > > >>> > draft-he-mpls-tp-csf-
> > > >>> 03.txt
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Support.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > I believe this mechanism is needed in MPLS-TP.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > Thanks
> > > >>> > Yuanlong
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>> > From: "Loa Andersson" <[e-mail]>
> > > >>> > To: <[e-mail]>rg>; <[e-mail]>rg>; <[e-mail]>rg>; 
> > > >>> > "MPLS-
> > > TP ad
> > > >>> > hoc
> > > >>> > team" <[e-mail]>
> > > >>> > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:56 PM
> > > >>> > Subject: [mpls-tp] poll on draft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.txt
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > > all,
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > this is to start a two week poll on making
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-he-mpls-tp-csf-03.
> > > >>> > > txt
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > a mpls working group document.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Please send comments support/not support to the mpls-tp
> > > maililng
> > > >>> > list.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > The poll ends Thursday Dec 2, 2010.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > /Loa
> > > >>> > > --
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Loa Andersson                         email:
> > > >>> > [e-mail]
> > > >>> > > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            [e-mail]
> > > >>> > > Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 
> 10 717 52 13
> > > >>> > >                                              +46 
> 767 72 92 
> > > >>> > > 13 _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > > mpls-tp mailing list
> > > >>> > > [e-mail]
> > > >>> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-tp
> > > >>>
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