Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS

Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com> Thu, 17 June 2021 06:45 UTC

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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
To: "gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com" <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>
CC: "loa@pi.nu" <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Re:[mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/0jwnKZsXUDs4mpBbG8lmt8jCwao>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS
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Hi Greg,

Lots of thanks for a prompt and highly relevant response to my email.

Please see some comments inline below.



Regards,

Sasha



Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com



-----Original Message-----
From: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 10:24 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re:[mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS



Hi Sasha,

I agree with all your comments regarding the GAL. Indeed, GAL in non-MPLS-TP environments may be placed anywhere in a label stack. But how an LSR acts in the case GAL is not BoS has been left under-defined in RFC 5586.

[[Sasha]] From my POV “under-defined” above is a gross understatement.



As I understand it, you are concerned that any work on closing that gap would not be backward compatible with the existing implementations handling GAL.

[[Sasha]] I am not aware of any implementations that handle GAL that is not  at the bottom of the label stack. Did I miss some?

While that might be the case, I think that the Open DT may give it a try and investigate how the existing systems will handle GAL being not the BoS label.

[[Sasha]] Great minds think alike! One useful step could be collecting the known actual behavior of popular implementations in this case, say, by running a survey among the vendors – what do you think?





Regards,

Greg Mirsky

Sr. Standardization Expert

预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部  Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division

E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com<mailto:gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com>

https://clicktime.symantec.com/3XViqah8L6FZgSaNkbm23jd6H2?u=www.zte.com.cn

------------------Original Mail------------------

Sender: AlexanderVainshtein

To: Loa Andersson;

CC: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>;

Date: 2021/06/15 06:09

Subject: Re: [mpls] [EXTERNAL] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS _______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

https://clicktime.symantec.com/35rH1i9V3fZqennDh8n1jpv6H2?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmpls



Loa and all,

I have to admit that I have not been following the work of the DT closely for the last month or so.

Therefore I may be asking some questions that have already been asked and even answered. In which case you can simply say so(hopefully with some reference).

However I still think these questions should be asked.

Please see these questions – with some clarifications –  inline below.

Regards,

Sasha

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com<mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson

Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 3:31 PM

To: mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>

Subject: [EXTERNAL] [mpls] Indicators in the stack and ancillary data after the BoS Design Team, When the Associated Channel first were desing it was assume that one associated channel per packet would be enough for the future.

[[Sasha]] Actually the initial GACh design (RFC 5586) has provided for a TLV to follow the GACh fixed header,  with the provision that the presence of such a TLV is inferred from the GACh type in the fixed header. However, this mechanism has never been used, and eventually GACh TLVs have been retired (RFC  7026).

I wonder if the need for multiple GACh in a packet could be addressed by GACh TLVs?

The rules for where the GAL (indicator for an associated channel) should be located in the stack and that there could only be one GAL in the stack was strictly specified.

[[Sasha]] GAL has been restricted to be just the BoS label in the MPLS-TP environments, but this restriction does not apply  “to other environments”.

However, I am not aware of any rules for handling GAL if it is exposed to the MPLS forwarder (i.e. becomes top of the stack) while being followed by some other labels. RFC 5586 only says that “A  receiving LSR, LER, or PE MUST NOT forward a G-ACh packet to  another node based on the GAL label”. This is quite different from the definition of handling for the Routing Alert label. From my POV:

·         Lack of these definitions effectively precludes usage of GAL in a non-BoS position

·         Any such definition, if introduced today, will not be backward compatible with the existing implementations.

Now we are where the development has taken us to a point where the GAL can be found at almost any position in the stack.

[[Sasha]] Please see my previous comment.

Further changes are discussed.

- As label stack has been growing there is a risk that some LSRs that need to find the GAL might find that the GAL is below readable depth.

The proposed remedy is to allow entering a copy of the first GAL higher in the stack, i.e. more than one GAL in the stack point to the same ACH.[[Sasha]] The LSR normally looks just at the top label in the stack. If GAL is not in the top position, why should it react to it? And if it is in the top position but not BoS, how will the  packet be forwarded? In addition, GAL does not “point to an ACH”. It says that ACH immediately follows the BoS label, so I fail to understand how a GAL can point to a specific ACH.

- It has also been discussed to carry more than one ACH after the BoS, i.e. you'll need more than one different GALs in the stack pointing to different ACH's.[[Sasha]] By different GALs do you mean different reserved – or extended reserved – label values?

(I think the if this statement is true that would require a "slight", but backwards compatible redesign of the GAL.)

- It has also been discussed to carry more then set of (the ACH is one) ancillary data after the BoS, and e.g. FAI, GAL, EHI, OAM indicator, etc. mixed in the label stack.

The issue is that the set of ancillary data after the BoS might will interfere and that we need a strong mechanism to find the ancillary data that "belongs to" a certain indicator.

I think that we first need to decide what is required and after that design a solution.

The correctness of statements about need to be verified and if necessary corrected.

/Loa

PS

Can someone tell me if I should use anxillary or ancillary?

--

Loa Andersson                        email:  loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>

Senior MPLS Expert                           loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com>

Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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