[mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt
Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> Mon, 02 September 2024 21:20 UTC
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From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 14:19:51 -0700
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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Subject: [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt
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Hi Loa, The methods are not exactly equal. Again, having an entropy action saves overhead if MNA will be in use for other reasons. Hashing the stack does not mean that all labels are contributing to the entropy. In fact, in the common case where there are several different flows on the same path, all of the labels in the label stack may be in common, except for the Entropy Label/Value. Thus, hashing the stack may only give the same amount of entropy as parsing out the Entropy Label/Value, it just may be easier to implement. T > On Sep 2, 2024, at 1:56 AM, Loa Andersson - loa at pi.nu <mailforwards@cloudmails.net> wrote: > > Adrian, > > inlline. > >> Den 02/09/2024 kl. 16:20, skrev Adrian Farrel: >> How do you measure? >> Size : 2^20 bits available in EL and LSE-C >> Place in stack : No restriction on either >> Repetition in stack : No restriction on either >> >> A > > OK, I was struggling before, this does not make it better :(. > > If all our methods are "equal", why do we struggle to develop > new methods? > > One question I really can't keep from asking. Hope someone can > lay it to rest. > > In hashing the stack a stack with 6 non-SPL labels gives me entropy > based on 6 x 2^20 bits, to give me entropy based on the same number of bit with EL/ELI I need 12 LSEs, right? > > AS for an MNA based method you can use 20 bits in the LSE Format C and > another 30 in an LSE Format D, right > > /Loa >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> >> Sent: 02 September 2024 09:11 >> To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> >> Cc: mpls <mpls@ietf.org> >> Subject: [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt >> >> Stewart and Tony, >> >> This might be classified as naive questions :). >> >>> Den 02/09/2024 kl. 15:15, skrev Stewart Bryant: >>> Hi Tony >>> >>> I am struggling to see whether this has a sufficient advantage over >>> the existing EL/ELI mechanism to justify us recommending it existence. >>> >>> It is obvious that this can be done, and it saves an LSE, but is that >>> sufficient justification for the complexity introduced by having two >>> mechanisms that of necessity need to co-exist? >>> >>> We also need to understand what happens in a legacy routers that are >>> looking for EL/ELI and older routers that just hash the stack. I think >>> they just provide less (no?) entropy. >> Is there a scientific way of calculating "how much" entropy the >> different generate? >> >> Is more entropy always better? >> >> What are the factors that determine how much entropy you need? >> >> /Loa >> >> >>> I imagine this ends with routers needing to parse for both types of >>> entropy which is not a great position to be in. >>> >>> Best regards >>> >>> Stewart >>> >>>> On 30 Aug 2024, at 5:26 PM, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> wrote: >>>> >>>> [WG chair hat: off] >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> This update addresses comments from Adrian Farrel as part of the WG >>>> adoption process. >>>> >>>> Comments and corrections are most welcome. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tony >>>> >>>> >>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>> >>>>> *From: *"internet-drafts at ietf.org" <mailforwards@cloudmails.net> >>>>> *Subject: **New Version Notification for >>>>> draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt* >>>>> *Date: *August 30, 2024 at 9:24:05 AM PDT >>>>> *To: *"John Drake" <je_drake@yahoo.com>, "Tony Li" <tony.li@tony.li> >>>>> *Reply-To: *internet-drafts@ietf.org >>>>> >>>>> A new version of Internet-Draft draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt has >>>>> been >>>>> successfully submitted by Tony Li and posted to the >>>>> IETF repository. >>>>> >>>>> Name: draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy >>>>> Revision: 03 >>>>> Title: MPLS Network Action for Entropy >>>>> Date: 2024-08-28 >>>>> Group: Individual Submission >>>>> Pages: 5 >>>>> URL: >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt >>>>> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy/ >>>>> HTMLized: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy >>>>> Diff: >>>>> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> >>>>> Load balancing is a powerful tool for engineering traffic across a >>>>> network and has been successfully used in MPLS as described in RFC >>>>> 6790, "The Use of Entropy Labels in MPLS Forwarding". With the >>>>> emergence of MPLS Network Actions (MNA), there is signficant benefit >>>>> in being able to invoke the same load balancing capabilities within >>>>> the more general MNA infrastructure. >>>>> >>>>> This document describes a network action for entropy to be used in >>>>> conjunction with "MPLS Network Action (MNA) Sub-Stack Solution". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mpls mailing list -- mpls@ietf.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to mpls-leave@ietf.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpls mailing list -- mpls@ietf.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to mpls-leave@ietf.org > > -- > Loa Andersson > Senior MPLS Expert > Bronze Dragon Consulting > loa@pi.nu > loa.pi.nu.@gmail.com >
- [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Stewart Bryant
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Adrian Farrel
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Adrian Farrel
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… bruno.decraene
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Stewart Bryant
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Tony Li
- [mpls] Fwd: Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… bruno.decraene
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Stewart Bryant
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Greg Mirsky
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tianran Zhou