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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 15:29:36 -0400
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To: Rakesh Gandhi <rgandhi.ietf@gmail.com>
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From: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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While I need to think more about the whole thing, I do now better 
understand your motivation.  Thank you for the explanation.

Yours,

Joel

On 6/26/2024 3:08 PM, Rakesh Gandhi wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> Thanks for your review comment.
>
> Based on my understanding, some of the main motivations for adding 
> IOAM direct export data fields in PSD instead of ISD would be:
>
>  1. IOAM data fields such as 32-bit Sequence Number or 32-bit
>     Timestamp in an ISD LSE can lead to undesired ECMP behavior on
>     nodes that use labels for ECMP hashing
>  2. IOAM data field format (32-bit) does not fit well into 32-bit ISD
>     LSE due to S bit (e.g., in 31-bit Format D), and it can result in
>     limitations, kind of defeats the use of standard IOAM formats
>  3. IOAM direct export supports extensibility to optionally add
>     “unlimited” number of data fields. When added as ISD, node RLD
>     would make it difficult to process the entire label stack
>  4. IOAM data fields for direct export (e.g., timestamp, sequence
>     number, flow identifier, Namespace-ID, IOAM Option-Type, etc.)
>     represent metadata (extra baggage) in the received packets
>       * NPU simply exports these metadata (extra baggage) and does not
>         really process them, there is not much motivation to place
>         them in ISD.
>
>
> Based on the discussion, will update draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01 
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01>. 
>
>
> Thanks,
> Rakesh
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 10:06 AM Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
>
>     Rakesh, I tried to understand the explanation in your draft for
>     why the iOAM DEX needs to be post-stack data.  I could not parse
>     it.  Could you write an email that explains why you think it is
>     needed?
>
>     Thank you,
>
>     Joel
>
>     On 6/26/2024 9:12 AM, Rakesh Gandhi wrote:
>>     Thanks Jags.
>>
>>     The PSD solution for MNA defined in draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-03
>>     is used for IOAM and IOAM DEX in draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01:
>>
>>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01
>>
>>
>>     IOAM and IOAM DEX use-cases for MNA are defined in
>>     draft-ietf-mpls-mna-usecases-10:
>>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mpls-mna-usecases-10
>>
>>     The PSD solution is useful for IOAM and IOAM-DEX, I support the
>>     request for WG adoption for draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-03 (as
>>     co-author).
>>
>>     P.S. I understand this email was not the WG adoption poll
>>     initiated by the chairs.
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     Rakesh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 10:52 PM Jaganbabu Rajamanickam
>>     (jrajaman) <jrajaman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>>         Hello Chairs,
>>
>>            We would like to request WG adoption for
>>         draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr.
>>
>>            Updated the draft with the initial review comments and the
>>         latest MNA header format.
>>
>>           Welcome your review comments and suggestions.
>>
>>         Thanx,
>>
>>         Jags
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         mpls mailing list -- mpls@ietf.org
>>         To unsubscribe send an email to mpls-leave@ietf.org
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     mpls mailing list --mpls@ietf.org
>>     To unsubscribe send an email tompls-leave@ietf.org
>
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    <p>While I need to think more about the whole thing, I do now better
      understand your motivation.  Thank you for the explanation.</p>
    <p>Yours,</p>
    <p>Joel<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/26/2024 3:08 PM, Rakesh Gandhi
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMZsk6cdG=omd=Tmur6+Jpisrt5HzphWPOAgwUH+33R3SoQRaw@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><font size="4">Hi Joel,<br>
          </font></div>
        <div><font size="4"><br>
          </font></div>
        <div><font size="4">Thanks for your review comment.<br>
          </font></div>
        <div><font size="4"><br>
          </font></div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="margin:0cm;font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif"><font
              size="4">Based on my understanding, some of the main
              motivations for adding IOAM direct export data fields in
              PSD
              instead of ISD would be:<br>
            </font></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <ol>
            <li><font size="4">IOAM data fields such as 32-bit Sequence
                Number or 32-bit Timestamp in an ISD LSE can lead to
                undesired ECMP behavior on nodes that use labels for
                ECMP hashing<span
                  style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"
                  lang="EN-US"></span></font></li>
            <li><font size="4">IOAM data field format (32-bit) does not
                fit well into 32-bit ISD LSE due to S bit (e.g., in
                31-bit Format D), and it can result in limitations, kind
                of defeats the use of standard IOAM formats<span></span></font></li>
            <li><font size="4">IOAM direct export supports extensibility
                to optionally add “unlimited” number of data fields.
                When added as ISD, node RLD would make it difficult to
                process the entire label stack<span></span></font></li>
            <li class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif"><font
                size="4">IOAM data fields for direct export (e.g.,
                timestamp, sequence number, flow identifier,
                Namespace-ID, IOAM Option-Type, etc.) represent metadata
                (extra baggage) in the received packets<span></span></font></li>
            <ul>
              <li class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif"><font
                  size="4">NPU simply exports these metadata (extra
                  baggage) and does not really process them, there is
                  not much motivation to place them in ISD.<span></span></font></li>
            </ul>
          </ol>
          <div><font size="4"><br>
            </font></div>
          <div><font size="4">Based on the discussion, will update <a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01</a>.</font>
            <div> </div>
          </div>
          <div><font size="4"><br>
            </font></div>
          <div><font size="4">Thanks,</font></div>
          <div><font size="4">Rakesh</font></div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at
          10:06 AM Joel Halpern &lt;<a href="mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>Rakesh, I tried to understand the explanation in your
              draft for why the iOAM DEX needs to be post-stack data.  I
              could not parse it.  Could you write an email that
              explains why you think it is needed?</p>
            <p>Thank you,</p>
            <p>Joel<br>
            </p>
            <div>On 6/26/2024 9:12 AM, Rakesh Gandhi wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>Thanks Jags.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>The PSD solution for MNA defined in
                  draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-03 is used for IOAM and
                  IOAM DEX in draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01:</div>
                <div>
                  <dl>
                    <dd><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gandhi-mpls-mna-ioam-dex-01</a></dd>
                  </dl>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>IOAM and IOAM DEX use-cases for MNA are defined in
                  draft-ietf-mpls-mna-usecases-10:</div>
                <div style="margin-left:40px"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mpls-mna-usecases-10"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mpls-mna-usecases-10</a></div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>The PSD solution is useful for IOAM and IOAM-DEX, I
                  support the request for WG adoption for
                  draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr-03 (as co-author). <br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>P.S. I understand this email was not the WG
                  adoption poll initiated by the chairs.<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Thanks,</div>
                <div>Rakesh <br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 25, 2024
                  at 10:52 PM Jaganbabu Rajamanickam (jrajaman)
                  &lt;jrajaman=<a
                    href="mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div>
                    <div lang="EN-CA">
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt">Hello Chairs,</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt">   We would like to
                            request WG adoption for
                            draft-jags-mpls-ps-mna-hdr.</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt">   Updated the draft
                            with the initial review comments and the
                            latest MNA header format.</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt">  Welcome your review
                            comments and suggestions.</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt">Thanx,</span></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11pt">Jags</span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    _______________________________________________<br>
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                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
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