Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths
Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> Thu, 16 November 2017 08:33 UTC
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:33:10 +0800
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To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Cc: Xiaohu Xu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths <draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>, mpls <mpls@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths
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Hi Zafar, et.al, as I'm the one who have started the thread I'd like to clarify and reiterate my point Performance measurements are required not only e2e but on a span, i.e. SPME, using MPLS-TO lingo. If we agree on that, then we are ready to discuss how to support these measurements in SR-MPLS. Regards, Greg On Nov 16, 2017 4:25 PM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > > > I also agree that it’s not a question on requirement but about a procedure > (in draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths) that breaks SR > Architecture, highly unscalable and complicated to implement. We can solve > this problem without breaking the SR architecture. We plan to write a draft > before the next IETF. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards … Zafar > > > > > > *From: *Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 9:54 PM > *To: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> > *Cc: *"Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths > <draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>, " > mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, spring <spring@ietf.org> > *Subject: *RE: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in > draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths > > > > I fully agree with you that OAM tools are important. > > I just felt that the approach as proposed in the draft would enconter the > same terrible issues as those associated with the MPLS-SR entropy label > usage due to RLD and MSD hardware limitations. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > > > ------------------------------ > > 徐小虎 Xuxiaohu > M:+86-13910161692 > E:xuxiaohu@huawei.com > 产品与解决方案-网络战略与业务发展部 > Products & Solutions-Network Strategy & Business Development Dept > > *发件人:* Greg Mirsky > > *收件人:* Xuxiaohu<xuxiaohu@huawei.com> > > *抄送:* Zafar Ali (zali)<zali@cisco.com>;draft-hegde-spring-traffic- > accounting-for-sr-paths<draft-hegde-spring-traffic- > accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>;mpls<mpls@ietf.org>;spring< > spring@ietf.org> > > *主**题**:* Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in > draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths > > *时间:* 2017-11-16 10:27:55 > > > > Dear All, > > I cannot imagine that operators will agree to deploy network that lacks > critical OAM tools to monitor performance and troubleshoot the network. > True, some will brave the challenge and be the early adopters but even they > will likely request that the OAM toolbox be sufficient to support their > operational needs. I see that this work clearly describes the problem and > why ability to quantify the flow behavior at internal nodes is important > for efficient network operation. First let's discuss whether the case and > requirement towards OAM is real and valid. Then we can continue to > discussion of what measurement method to use. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote: > > Concur. Although it has some values, it's not cost-efficient from my point > of view. Network simplicity should be the first priority object. Hence we > would have to make some compromise. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > > > ------------------------------ > > 徐小虎 Xuxiaohu > M:+86-13910161692 > E:xuxiaohu@huawei.com > 产品与解决方案-网络战略与业务发展部 > Products & Solutions-Network Strategy & Business Development Dept > > *发件人:* Zafar Ali (zali) > > *收件人:* Greg Mirsky<gregimirsky@gmail.com>;draft-hegde-spring-traffic- > accounting-for-sr-paths<draft-hegde-spring-traffic- > accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>;mpls<mpls@ietf.org>;spring< > spring@ietf.org> > > *主**题**:* Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in > draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths > > *时间:* 2017-11-16 02:24:10 > > > > Hi, > > > > This draft breaks the SR architecture. I am quoting a snippet from > abstract of SR Architecture document https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-13, which states: > > “SR allows to enforce a flow through any topological path while > maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress nodes to the SR domain.” > > > > In addition to creating states at transit and egress nodes, the procedure > also affects the data plane and makes it unscalable. It also makes > controller job much harder and error prune. In summary, I find the > procedure very complex and unscalable. > > > > Thanks > > > > Regards … Zafar > > > > > > *From: *spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Mirsky < > gregimirsky@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 11:10 AM > *To: *"draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org" < > draft-hegde-spring-traffic-accounting-for-sr-paths@ietf.org>, " > mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org> > *Subject: *[spring] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spring-traffic- > accounting-for-sr-paths > > > > Hi Shraddha, > > thank you for very well written and thought through draft. I have these > questions I'd like to discuss: > > - Have you thought of using not one special purpose label for both SR > Path Identifier and SR Path Identifier+Source SID cases but request two > special purpose labels, one for each case. Then the SR Path Identifier > would not have to lose the bit for C flag. > - And how you envision to collect the counters along the path? Of > course, a Controller may query LSR for all counters or counters for the > particular flow (SR Path Identifier+Source SID). But in addition I'd > propose to use in-band mechanism, perhaps another special purpose label, to > trigger the LSR to send counters of the same flow with the timestamp > out-band to the predefined Collector. > - And the last, have you considered ability to flush counters per > flow. In Scalability Considerations you've stated that counters are > maintained as long as collection of statistics is enabled. If that is on > the node scope, you may have to turn off/on the collection to flush off > some old counters. I think that finer granularity, per flow granularity > would be useful for operators. Again, perhaps the flow itself may be used > to signal the end of the measurement and trigger release of counters. > > Regards, > > Greg > > >
- [mpls] Special purpose labels in draft-hegde-spri… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… ShaoWen Ma
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Shraddha Hegde
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… David Allan I
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Chengli (IP Technology Research)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Xuxiaohu
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance meas… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … David Allan I
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… stephane.litkowski
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] Whether both E2E and SPME performance … John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Whether both E2E and SPME per… Greg Mirsky
- [mpls] Fwd: Re: [spring] Special purpose labels i… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [mpls] Fwd: Re: [spring] Special purpose labe… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Mach Chen
- Re: [mpls] Fwd: Re: [spring] Special purpose labe… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] Fwd: Re: [spring] Special purpose labe… Uma Chunduri
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- [mpls] measurement requirements (was Re: [spring]… Martin Horneffer
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Martin Horneffer
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] measurement requirements (was… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Martin Horneffer
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [mpls] [spring] Special purpose labels in dra… Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)