Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators.
bruno.decraene@orange.com Tue, 13 July 2021 14:57 UTC
Return-Path: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 344233A1506; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 07:57:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.795
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cMLMerenPz3E; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 07:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF28F3A1503; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 07:56:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTPS id 4GPNyG5S1Sz5vh7; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:56:54 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1626188214; bh=U4ugyi7LYHo7K6A04iWVi1WWrrI4VlmeMkbb8Av/gOk=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=YKNn7/UvjdSXGkPd+RoPYjnQUYXHLis/kgHUiijPiOKm1I7PA1HXs+w8XMEoREaYF lmNWfaG1ZUmEiA25kaIjTjM26CltspHXbSTY2AFnJQKvtXysNKS7CF+zB3t5ceHxIh 1LNzhUVqQrsytkAnHLzprvnb5xhgea/+N5t/vgCOowI1kQTQ4Lp0/K0sohSZu1l0YO sAbJvT6hPQ4adWoEkEev0KmcIIwiOpkm3xqc9s3CHydwXiIMv3K2m32FNjKQQSMNlL dq7rz9IrHF2r19QDxdLYdyYuKC0zXkWafJeo5d1qXxHYBFF9UL9Za10o2/Yn4Yuu7O YTe+BD+HWiXqg==
Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTPS id 4GPNyG3PKcz3wbN; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:56:54 +0200 (CEST)
From: bruno.decraene@orange.com
To: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "pals-chairs@ietf.org" <pals-chairs@ietf.org>, "spring-chairs@ietf.org" <spring-chairs@ietf.org>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, DetNet Chairs <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators.
Thread-Index: AQHXd156lXexBBF6pk+ZwfGc/zeVUqtA7GkQ
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:56:53 +0000
Message-ID: <21522_1626188214_60EDA9B6_21522_127_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CE2012A@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
References: <2780a4de-a514-0ae0-bbe7-6c632aaf12e5@pi.nu> <CABdMmoDQXtiZBLVk_oTnJDNJsVKJ6_NhU2p8HujecJTrGe3YMQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABdMmoDQXtiZBLVk_oTnJDNJsVKJ6_NhU2p8HujecJTrGe3YMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: fr-FR
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CE2012AOPEXCAUBM43corp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mpls/HHk6lrpFEpJ2-mVpB9yMdcCp-AU>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators.
X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG <mpls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mpls>, <mailto:mpls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mpls/>
List-Post: <mailto:mpls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mpls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls>, <mailto:mpls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:57:04 -0000
Hi Kireeti, Speaking as co-author of [1], please see inline [Bruno] From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 10:43 PM To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; pals-chairs@ietf.org; spring-chairs@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; DetNet Chairs <detnet-chairs@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Hi Loa, See inline. On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 2:11 AM Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu>> wrote: Design Team, We have discussed how to carry ancillary data in in an MPLS packet and how to include indicators on the presences of such data in the label stack since the design team started. I think we have some convergence and that it is time to float an idea that could be the basis for a consensus. Please note that the actual consensus call will be made on the mpls wg mailing list, while this is for discussion preparing such a consensus call in the design team. The proposals we have for indicators often rely on assignment of a base special purpose label. The number of such labels are limited. I think we can agree on the following: - We want to limit the number of new assignments of base special purpose labels as much as possible - We have a standardized associated channel, the GAL/GACH. We are not going to change the associated channel. The associated will remain as specified in RFC 5586. The ACH is found immediately after the label carrying the Bottom of Stack (BoS) bit. - We therefore need a (base) special purpose label to serve as the forwarding action indicator carrier. The proposal in draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa does this, and at the same time, collapses the requests of 5 or 6 SPLs to a single SPL. - It is attractive to "re-purpose" the ELI to also fill the role as a general (generic?) forwarding action indicator. This may be done by using the TTL and TC fields of the ELI as flags indicating which service is requested. While I'd be happy if this was possible, backward compatibility MUST be maintained without compromising functionality. [Bruno] This proposition is explored in [1]. There indeed multiple metrics: - compatibility: I agree that this is a MUST. My understanding is that [1] (section 2 is 1 page so a quick read) is backward compatible with the EL RFC and deployed implementations. (in particular, the TC and TTL fields of the ELI are unchanged). Do we have the same understanding or do you have concerns on this point? - functionality: everything else been the same, the more functionality, the better. I agree that using the currently unused EL/ELI bits for flags/indicators has limitations in term of the number of flags that can be supported (with a limit of 11 simultaneous flags). How many years of MPLS growth can we buy with that? And this may eventually be extended as you proposed with LS FAH and LS FAD. - cost and time to deploy before been able to use it: to me that’s an important factor. The longer the time (years) and the bigger the constraints (on legacy platform) the higher the benefits must be in order to justify the interest in a new technology. But YMMV I guess. In my experience, incremental benefit with incremental deployment helps. MPLS EL was good on this, but even with this, MPLS EL took some time to be deployed [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id#section-2 Best regards, --Bruno However, in order to do this it must be shown that there is no potential interference between the normal service supplied by the ELI/EL and the services indicated by the flags. - If we can't demonstrate the non-interference then we should assign specific forwarding indicator action base special purpose label and leave the ELI/EL unchanged. - The flag field of the re-purposed ELI of the the specially assigned forwarding action indicator label must be made extendable. These labels "only" have 11 bits (8 bit TTL and 3 bit TC fields) that can be used as flags. Already in the very preliminary discussions we have had so far are almost using all the 11 bits, making the it necessary to make the indicator extendable. Actually, the draft already had such an extension in place; the details have been fleshed out a bit better in the new version (just posted). The bit fields have changed as a consequence of my chat with Haoyu; some have been removed, but more added, so all 11 bits have been used up. So the extension header will be needed. The -01 draft is clearer than the -00 draft on several fronts, and lists issues needing resolution. I'm sure more will come up after the MPLS WG meeting. Cheers, Kireeti. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu<mailto:loa@pi.nu> Senior MPLS Expert loa.pi.nu@gmail.com<mailto:loa.pi.nu@gmail.com> Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.
- [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. bruno.decraene
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. John E Drake
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Haoyu Song
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Loa Andersson
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Kireeti Kompella
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Kireeti Kompella
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. bruno.decraene
- Re: [mpls] Thoughts on Ancillary Data Indicators. Haoyu Song