[mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt
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To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt
Thread-Index: AQHa/QfrA6fyNaabKUqVkcnPUZfYwrJEKrmw
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 08:57:18 +0000
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References: <C46E4867-89A7-4AAA-8C5F-515B5AA0FEFF@tony.li> <9A9F1679-120D-4E40-A34F-0476513BE2E5@gmail.com>
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Subject: [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt
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I would tend to agree with Stewart. To progress on this point, I would suggest that the document better evaluate the “signficant benefit” which is stated in the abstract. My naïve evaluation is the following: Assuming X% of the packets needs entropy for Load Balancing Assuming Y% of the packets needs MNA for another reason Assuming Z% of nodes supports mna-entropy The gain seems to be 4 bytes*X%*Y%*Z%*Z%. This can easily be very small even with relatively optimistic values. e.g. with respectively 50%, 10%, 50% the average gain is 0.05 byte per packet (0.4 bit per packet). Then assuming an IMIX traffic as per [1] the dimensioning gain on links and routers seems to be 0.003% which is probably negligible for anyone. More importantly, at decision time, Z and Y would be very small and the gain would be even smaller. So it seems unlikely to me that anyone (vendor and operator) would choose to decide to be the first to implement. And if nobody starts, Z would never grow so the benefit would never grow. Also, original EL took quite some time (if not too much time IMO) to be ready and largely implemented, which is especially an issue when the feature needs both the ingress and egress support and the ability to use is Z%*Z% which is (much) smaller than Z%. More than 10 years after RFC, the BGP signaling is still not (fully) cooked (RFC, implemented). I would rather not start again from scratch, and even reduce the implementation effort on original EL. IOW I don’t think we need two solutions for the same problem. Especially two data planes solutions. I’m probably missing something so clarifying the benefit in the draft would probably be useful. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Mix Best regards, --Bruno From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 2, 2024 9:15 AM To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> Cc: mpls <mpls@ietf.org> Subject: [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt CAUTION : This email originated outside the company. Do not click on any links or open attachments unless you are expecting them from the sender. ATTENTION : Cet e-mail provient de l'extérieur de l'entreprise. Ne cliquez pas sur les liens ou n'ouvrez pas les pièces jointes à moins de connaitre l'expéditeur. Hi Tony I am struggling to see whether this has a sufficient advantage over the existing EL/ELI mechanism to justify us recommending it existence. It is obvious that this can be done, and it saves an LSE, but is that sufficient justification for the complexity introduced by having two mechanisms that of necessity need to co-exist? We also need to understand what happens in a legacy routers that are looking for EL/ELI and older routers that just hash the stack. I think they just provide less (no?) entropy. I imagine this ends with routers needing to parse for both types of entropy which is not a great position to be in. Best regards Stewart On 30 Aug 2024, at 5:26 PM, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> wrote: [WG chair hat: off] Hi, This update addresses comments from Adrian Farrel as part of the WG adoption process. Comments and corrections are most welcome. Thanks, Tony Begin forwarded message: From: "internet-drafts at ietf.org" <mailforwards@cloudmails.net<mailto:mailforwards@cloudmails.net>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt Date: August 30, 2024 at 9:24:05 AM PDT To: "John Drake" <je_drake@yahoo.com<mailto:je_drake@yahoo.com>>, "Tony Li" <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> A new version of Internet-Draft draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Tony Li and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy Revision: 03 Title: MPLS Network Action for Entropy Date: 2024-08-28 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 5 URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy/ HTMLized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy Diff: https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-li-mpls-mna-entropy-03 Abstract: Load balancing is a powerful tool for engineering traffic across a network and has been successfully used in MPLS as described in RFC 6790, "The Use of Entropy Labels in MPLS Forwarding". With the emergence of MPLS Network Actions (MNA), there is signficant benefit in being able to invoke the same load balancing capabilities within the more general MNA infrastructure. This document describes a network action for entropy to be used in conjunction with "MPLS Network Action (MNA) Sub-Stack Solution". The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list -- mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org> To unsubscribe send an email to mpls-leave@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-leave@ietf.org> ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. 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- [mpls] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Stewart Bryant
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Adrian Farrel
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Adrian Farrel
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… bruno.decraene
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Stewart Bryant
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Tony Li
- [mpls] Fwd: Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draf… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… bruno.decraene
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Stewart Bryant
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tony Li
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Loa Andersson
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Greg Mirsky
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- [mpls] Re: New Version Notification for draft-li-… Tianran Zhou