Re: [mpls] [spring] Invitation to participate in an Open MPLS wg desifn team on how to carry additional forwarding data in MPLS packets

["Fomin, Sergey (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Eduard,
> MPLS had a separate data plane header for services/overlay and separate for transport/underlay since the beginning.
> - It is important to preserve the clear separation of data plane headers for services/overlay and transport/underlay

Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
In my opinion, almost the opposite is (currently) true - there's no distinction between "service/overlay" and "transport/underlay" headers, and there's no intrinsic semantics of mpls labels (except for special-purpose labels).
MPLS labels have meaning only because of the existence of FEC/NHLFE/ILM mappings.

--
Sergey

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Vasilenko Eduard
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 2:01 AM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [mpls] [spring] Invitation to participate in an Open MPLS wg desifn team on how to carry additional forwarding data in MPLS packets

Hi MPLS Guru!
Sorry. I did not have a chance to participate in your call.
I do agree to all policies specified below. Could I propose 1 additional?

MPLS had a separate data plane header for services/overlay and separate for transport/underlay since the beginning. "Transport" in IETF has 2 meanings - I am referencing here to forwarding.
TEAS continues to specify VPN+ in the same way: VPN and VTN are separate.
We have seen examples when transport or service headers have been stacked independently, primarily it was the stack of many transport labels with 1 service label, but the opposite is possible too.
I propose the policy:
- It is important to preserve the clear separation of data plane headers for services/overlay and transport/underlay for independent innovation and management by different control plane protocols

IMHO: It is an important and valuable differentiator.

Eduard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spring [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Loa 
> Andersson
> Sent: Sunday, April 4, 2021 9:51 AM
> To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; DetNet WG <[e-mail]>; 
> [e-mail]
> Subject: [spring] Invitation to participate in an Open MPLS wg desifn 
> team on how to carry additional forwarding data in MPLS packets
> 
> MPLS, PALS, DETNET and SPRING working groups,
> 
> Note: This message is sent to four working groups, please limit 
> responses to the mpls wg mailing list only.
> 
> All members of the four working group are invited to participate in an 
> open MPLS wg design team to address the work that was discussed in the 
> joint meeting at IETF 110
> 
> Below follows "notes" from a meeting between chairs of the four 
> working groups 2021-03-22. It outlines how we initially will take on the work.
> 
> -------------------  meeting notes   -----------------------
> 
> 
> Continue the work the joint meeting at IETF 110.
> ================================================
> 
> Working Group Chairs from MPLS, PALS, SPRING and DETNET met
> 2021-03-22 to discuss how to follow up the joint meeting at IETF 110.
> 
> Participation:
> --------------
> 
>    Loa Andersson (mpls)
>    Tarek Saad (mpls)
>    Stewart Bryant (pals)
>    Andy Malis (pals)
>    Joel Halpern (spring)
>    Lou Berger (detnet)
> 
> We discussed three themes
> -------------------------
> 
> - what to do next
> - how to document the output from the joint meeting
> - how to organize the work that starts here
> 
> We agreed
> =========
> 
> - that the work starting here is part of the MPLS architecture  and in
>    the end might lead to updates - that this is work that should be
>    coordinated by the mpls working group and that discussion working
>    group adoption and the discussion should be taken to the MPLS WG
>    mailing list.
> 
> We agreed with the summary from the joint meeting
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> - that tt is important that MPLS grows and develops to support the new
>    needs of network operators. The alternative to such development is
>    stagnation and a path to obsolescence.
> 
> - that is important that any change does not adversely impact the
>    operation of legacy equipment installed in the same network as the n
>    new functionality.
> 
> - it is important that any change is both forwards and backwards
>    compatible. i.e. that any change does not limit the ability for
>    further future development of MPLS.
> 
> - it is important that any change be practical on the forwarding
>    technology likely to be deployable in the reasonably near future.
> 
> - it is important that we minimize the number of changes needed to
>    support the new needs but making that change an elegant approach
>    that satisfies as many of the new needs as possible.
> 
> - there is sufficient interest and urgency in the need for new features
>    that we need to work on this between meetings to progress at an
>    acceptable rate.
> 
> We also agreed on some practical things
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> - the list (possibly incomplete) of proposals in Stewart's slides
>    has been updated to a short draft to serve as input to this work
>    (draft-bryant-mpls-dev-primer-00.txt).
> 
> - the work will be divided into two "tracks" (1) proposals carrying
>    information after the BoS and; (2) proposals carrying info in the
>    stack.
> 
> - we will hold open design-team meetings, i.e. any member of the four
>    working groups are encouraged to participate
> 
> - the meeting cycle is 5 weeks:
> 
>    -- "week 1" we will have a joint meeting to coordinate between the
>       two tracks
>    -- "week 2" and "week 4" we will have a track 1 meeting
>    -- "week 3" and "week 5" we will have a track 2 meeting
>    -- "week 6" = "week 1"; and we start the count over again
> 
> We will start  with joint (kick off) meeting April 8. The agenda will 
> be prepared during the week of April 5, let us know if there is anything you want to discuss.
> We already now know that we will want to discuss Stewart's primer.
> 
> Mach will send out WebEx details to all four working groups.
> 
> - the over all coordination of this activity will done by Loa, if
>    you need a slot in any meting or need to put a discussion point
>    on the agenda ping Loa.
> 
> - the meetings will be every Thursday at 3pm Central European Time.
> 
> /Loa
> for(all) the wg-chairs
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]
> Senior MPLS Expert                          [e-mail]
> Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: [phone]
> 
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring

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