Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Yimin Shen <yshen@juniper.net> Wed, 31 July 2019 14:03 UTC
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From: Yimin Shen <yshen@juniper.net>
To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework@ietf.org>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:02:52 +0000
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Roman, We have uploaded a new version (07) of this draft. It has addressed the comments and incorporated the suggestions which we received from IESG review. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework/ Thanks again for all the kind reviews ! -- Yimin Shen On 7/30/19, 12:14 PM, "Roman Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org> wrote: Hi Yimin! This revised addresses both of my discuss items. Thank you synthesizing it. Regards, Roman > -----Original Message----- > From: Yimin Shen [mailto:yshen@juniper.net] > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 10:16 AM > To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org> > Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework@ietf.org; Loa Andersson > <loa@pi.nu>; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection- > framework-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Hi Roman, > > Thanks again for your detailed review and comments! Please see below for > the revised text which has incorporated your suggestions. > > In particular, for your comment on the "In one possible case ..." about a CE- > launched attack, this paragraph was added to address a comment from > another view. The case is not associated tightly with egress protection, but > we thought it would be worth mentioning it, with a clarification that [1] such > kind of attacks are not introduced by egress protection; [2] they can happen > regardless of egress protection; [3] there are existing mechanisms to deal > with them. We have clarified more in the new text below. > > Please let us know if you have more comment, or can resolve the discussion. > Thanks again! > > ---- > > 12. Security Considerations > > The framework in this document involves rerouting traffic around an > egress node or link failure, via a bypass path from a PLR to a > protector, and ultimately to a backup egress router. > The forwarding performed by the routers in the data plane > is anticipated, as part of the planning of egress protection. > > Control plane protocols MAY be used to facilitate the provisioning of > the egress protection on the routers. In particular, the framework requires > a service label distribution protocol between an egress router and a > protector > over a secure session. The security properties of this provisioning and label > distribution depend entirely on the underlying protocol chosen to > implement > these activities . Their associated security considerations apply. This > framework > introduces no new security requirements or guarantees relative to these > activities. > > Also, the PLR, protector, and backup egress router are located close > to the protected egress router, and normally in the same > administrative domain. If they are not in the same administrative > domain, a certain level of trust MUST be established between them in > order for the protocols to run securely across the domain > boundary. The basis of this trust is the security model of the protocols > (as described above), and further security considerations for inter-domain > scenarios should be addressed by the protocols as a common requirement. > > Security attacks may sometimes come from a customer domain. > Such kind of attacks are not introduced by the framework > in this document, and may occur regardless of the existence of > egress protection. In one possible case, the egress link between an egress > router and a CE could become a point of attack. An attacker that gains > control > of the CE might use it to simulate link failures and trigger constant > and cascading activities in the network. If egress link protection is > in place, egress link protection activities may also be triggered. > As a general solution to defeat the attack, a damping mechanism > SHOULD be used by the egress router to promptly > suppress the services associated with the link or CE. The egress > router would stop advertising the services, essentially detaching > them from the network and eliminating the effect of the simulated > link failures. > > From the above perspectives, this framework does not introduce any > new security threat to networks. > > > Thanks, > > -- Yimin > > > > > > > On 7/23/19, 5:48 PM, "Roman Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org> wrote: > > Hi Yimin! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yimin Shen [mailto:yshen@juniper.net] > > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 9:59 AM > > To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org> > > Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework@ietf.org; Loa Andersson > > <loa@pi.nu>; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls-egress- > protection- > > framework-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Hi Roman, > > > > Thanks very much for your review! > > > > Please see inline below for the changes we plan to make, and let us > know if > > they are sufficient to resolve this discussion. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- Yimin > > > > On 7/9/19, 4:08 PM, "Roman Danyliw via Datatracker" > <noreply@ietf.org> > > wrote: > > > > Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-mpls-egress-protection-framework-06: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > > 3A__www.ietf.org_iesg_statement_discuss- > > 2Dcriteria.html&d=DwIDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=2- > > > nT7xvtgxYac4wpYxwo_jh5rZM2uwTLxgRhaObwYug&m=X9HyscF98j23N9gok > > > dZCH9iEG0x_yrqq45haf_Mseus&s=3coZyWz9ap2Zfz4Y4g17fpbs5CyIQnK3Oe > > cHx5BBXDE&e= > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dmpls-2Degress- > 2Dprotection- > > 2Dframework_&d=DwIDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=2- > > > nT7xvtgxYac4wpYxwo_jh5rZM2uwTLxgRhaObwYug&m=X9HyscF98j23N9gok > > > dZCH9iEG0x_yrqq45haf_Mseus&s=6r9KW52kfdX1MRN_rfpiU1ILMNibzZh7u > > b-VcoEKCQM&e= > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > A few questions about the Security Considerations: > > > > (1) Section 11. I appreciate that this a framework document that is > trying > > to > > be generic. Section 4 (and others) seem to lay out generic > requirements. > > However, this Security Considerations section is both vague on the > > protocol > > choices (understandable) and the security services/properties they > would > > have > > (the gap). For example, “The general security measures of the > protocols > > SHOULD be used whenever applicable.” and “The available security > > measures of > > the chosen protocol SHOULD be used to achieve a secured session > > between the two > > routers.” Some discussion of what a “secured session” would look like > > would be > > helpful. > > > > [yshen] We could say that “The general security measures of the > protocols > > SHOULD be used whenever needed and applicable, e.g. an > authentication > > method or password. The framework does not require additional > security > > measures for these protocols, other than what they already have." > > Thanks. I think I better understand what is meant with the text. Correct > me here, but it seems like you're saying that the security of establishing the > egress protection behavior rests on the underlying security properties of the > control plane/service label distribution protocols used to establish the it. > Likewise, I'm assuming that the alluded alternative to using a control plan > protocol (since the current text uses a MAY) is manual configuration. > > If my understanding is correct, might I suggest the following to make it > clearer on what is in and out of scope: > > OLD: > Some control > plane protocols MAY be used between these routers to facilitate the > establishment of egress protection. The general security measures of > the protocols SHOULD be used whenever applicable. In particular, the > framework requires a service label distribution protocol between an > egress router and a protector. The security measures of the chosen > protocol SHOULD be used to achieve a secured session between the two > routers. > > NEW > Control plane protocols MAY be used to facilitate the provisioning of this > egress protection on the routers. In particular, this framework requires a > service label distribution protocol between an egress router and a protector > over secure session. The security properties of this provisioning and label > distribution depend entirely on the underlying protocol chosen to > implement these activities . Their associated security considerations apply. > This framework introduces no new security requirements or guarantees > relative to these activities. > > > (2) Section 11. What are the elements and enablers of “a certain level > of > > trust … [being] established between the routers for the protocols to > run > > securely”? > > > > [yshen] Here, the "trust" simply means that, first the routers are allowed > to > > run the protocols between them; and second, the protocols are run > securely > > like the above. Again, this should be the same manner as that of an > inter-AS > > protocols. > > Understood. I believe we need a more detailed statement that (1) the > basis of this trust is the security model of the selected protocols (like above); > and a (paragraphing): "there security considerations for inter-AS protocols > <as defined here> and they should be addressed by the implemented > protocol". > > Finally, given what you've explained about the first two paragraphs, the > second from last paragraph, "In one possible case ...", seems to actually > discuss a security issues relative to this framework. Hence, I don't > understand the basis of new last paragraph "From the above perspective, > this framework doesn't introduce any new security threats to the network". > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > (3) Section 4. Per “The framework MUST consider minimizing > disruption > > during > > deployment”, why is this MUST only to _consider_ minimizing rather > than > > actually minimizing the disruption? > > > > [yshen] Will change this to "This framework must minimize disruption > ...". > > Also pointed out by some other viewers, the normative terms > > MAY/SHOULD/MUST are not suitable for this "consideration" section. > Will > > replace them with may/should/must. > > Thanks. > > > (4) Section 5.7. Per “a globally unique IPv4/v6 address is assigned to a > > protected egress {E, P} as the identifier of the protected egress {E, P}”, I > > recommend being explicit and saying and s/IPv4\\v6/IPv4 or v6/ > > > > [yshen] Will fix this. > > Thanks. > > > (5) Section 9. I’m missing something obvious -- what is a “label table > > pe2.mpls”? > > > > [yshen] I think you are talking about the example in section 10. As it > specifies > > in the first paragraph, " On PE3, ....., and a table pe2.mpls is created to > > represent PE2's label space." > > We're talking about the same thing, the section titled "Example: Layer-3 > VPN egress protection" (it was section 9 in -05 and section 10 in -05). I > understand now. Thank you for the clarification. > > Roman > > > > > >
- [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-mpls… Roman Danyliw via Datatracker
- Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Yimin Shen
- Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Yimin Shen
- Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Roman Danyliw
- Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Yimin Shen
- Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Roman Danyliw
- Re: [mpls] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Yimin Shen