Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management
Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com> Mon, 29 December 2003 20:42 UTC
Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19])
by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12633
for <mpowr-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:42:36 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ab4DI-0000MA-BF
for mpowr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:42:08 -0500
Received: (from exim@localhost)
by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hBTKg8XE001366
for mpowr-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:42:08 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ab4DI-0000Lx-4I
for mpowr-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:42:08 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12626
for <mpowr-web-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:42:06 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
id 1Ab4DG-0004U7-00
for mpowr-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:42:06 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
id 1Ab4BQ-0004Rz-00
for mpowr-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:40:13 -0500
Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org)
by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ab4AG-0004OW-00
for mpowr-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:39:00 -0500
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org)
by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20)
id 1Ab4AH-0000J4-7e; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:39:01 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org)
by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1Ab49R-0000Ic-4I
for mpowr@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:38:09 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12535
for <mpowr@ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:38:07 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
id 1Ab49P-0004ME-00
for mpowr@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:38:07 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
id 1Ab47a-0004If-00
for mpowr@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:36:15 -0500
Received: from measurement-factory.com ([206.168.0.5])
by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ab478-0004FB-00
for mpowr@ietf.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:35:46 -0500
Received: from measurement-factory.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hBTKZjk3076984;
Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:35:45 -0700 (MST)
(envelope-from rousskov@measurement-factory.com)
Received: (from rousskov@localhost)
by measurement-factory.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id hBTKZjvK076983;
Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:35:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rousskov)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:35:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com>
To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
cc: MPowr <mpowr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management
In-Reply-To: <1124503550.1072697260@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.53.0312291322220.64996@measurement-factory.com>
References: <011901c3c654$24fdc830$5b6015ac@dclkempt40>
<383969298.1071956717@localhost> <3FE86D59.8060201@txc.com>
<Pine.BSF.4.53.0312230933510.47938@measurement-factory.com>
<2ca901c3c97b$347b1db0$5b6015ac@dclkempt40>
<Pine.BSF.4.53.0312231037030.47938@measurement-factory.com>
<2ccf01c3c97d$b5993ec0$5b6015ac@dclkempt40>
<Pine.BSF.4.53.0312231117340.47938@measurement-factory.com>
<2d7d01c3c987$cfa411f0$5b6015ac@dclkempt40>
<Pine.BSF.4.53.0312231353320.47938@measurement-factory.com>
<902909174.1072475663@localhost>
<Pine.BSF.4.53.0312291140100.64996@measurement-factory.com>
<1124503550.1072697260@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: mpowr-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: mpowr-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: mpowr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpowr>,
<mailto:mpowr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Management Positions -- Oversight, Work and Results <mpowr.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:mpowr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mpowr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpowr>,
<mailto:mpowr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on
ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > Note that all of the "terrible" things you mention have happened > WITHOUT an effective banning process. Exactly. This implies, to me, that there will be even more violations if the banning process is formalized but has cheap loopholes. > I don't follow the logic.... If the rules of the games are unknown a priory but determined by the Oracle on a case-by-case basis, a violator will think twice before upsetting the Oracle because the Oracle may adapt and punish even more severely. Violations will still happen, of course. If the rules are formal and known a priory, a violator that found a legal loophole, would be more inclined to use it because the rules would prohibit the punishment (by loophole definition). More violations (of the rules intent) will happen. Thus, if we are going to formalize something, we must make sure there are no cheap loopholes. If the latter is impossible, we may be better of without formalization. Think, for example, of US tax law: those with resources to find loopholes pay no or lesser taxes and do not feel threatened or guilty. One could argue that they are violating the [original] intent of the law, but they certainly do not violate the law (by loophole definition). Alex. _______________________________________________ mpowr mailing list mpowr@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpowr
- [mpowr] Mailing List Management James Kempf
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Margaret.Wasserman
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Conta
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management James Kempf
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Conta
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management John C Klensin
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Conta
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Conta
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management James Kempf
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management James Kempf
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Melinda Shore
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management James Kempf
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Margaret.Wasserman
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Margaret.Wasserman
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management James Kempf
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management John C Klensin
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Spencer Dawkins
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Margaret.Wasserman
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Conta
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Conta
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Spencer Dawkins
- RE: [mpowr] Mailing List Management John C Klensin
- RFC Editor doc approvals (RE: [mpowr] Mailing Lis… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: RFC Editor doc approvals (RE: [mpowr] Mailing… John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Editor doc approvals (RE: [mpowr] Mailing… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: RFC Editor doc approvals (RE: [mpowr] Mailing… Dave Crocker
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management John C Klensin
- Re: Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Dave Crocker
- Re: [mpowr] Mailing List Management Alex Rousskov