Re: [Mtgvenue] [admin-discuss] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment

"Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> Thu, 04 February 2021 19:14 UTC

Return-Path: <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
X-Original-To: mtgvenue@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mtgvenue@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C0D23A173D; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:14:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2U8hEJvyL6gL; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:14:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FEE83A173A; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:14:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0156896.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 114JCgOj006113; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:14:20 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=+4PnC2EYFygyQxX/aQAI/BlaJJVqs+C91+MQnW48Sfw=; b=e2rCRTCmy+0zT0d7tBpHpPwM/5y3GaJsCMJys+DD8Gjerrgexb8vgI/B194KnsDNt1g1 cr3Ez94CZ5cKgbczT2bOoOjrmyf30MQgOXTmElAaEN3KgfBZx+Hv6XaGIlOoHn3mZIqX uVyLhlVaIieqzW7Pw5y+S88GhE4WDjk+aBmspt9Sd04F+gX9I2dr1h3PgIY391ySUanM WQmh0ECVnaWc/SxAdvAB1widRYsvFhRCN5Nr1J4uKcybrO3fcCyOsPbzgmGvqUFhck1F y/Y9Rj99n/nrnrvZgoMnuK+bdQMpLYpf5Y1nrVsp0ywwcdhD7oWh0R43fqVwcAYGTtKv yQ==
Received: from copdcexc38.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-po-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.137]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 36d3beapa2-31 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 04 Feb 2021 14:14:20 -0500
Received: from copdcexc33.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.132) by COPDCEXC38.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.137) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:13:50 -0700
Received: from COPDCEXEDGE01.cable.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) by copdcexc33.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.132) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:13:51 -0700
Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.38.59) by webmail.comcast.com (96.114.158.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 14:14:11 -0500
Received: from MN2PR11MB4287.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:189::17) by MN2PR11MB4254.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:18f::29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3805.23; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 19:13:41 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB4287.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::158f:b5c3:b0d8:5e43]) by MN2PR11MB4287.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::158f:b5c3:b0d8:5e43%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3805.027; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 19:13:41 +0000
From: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
To: Jay Daley <jay@ietf.org>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Eliot Lear <lear=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "mtgvenue@ietf.org" <mtgvenue@ietf.org>, "admin-discuss@ietf.org" <admin-discuss@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [admin-discuss] [Mtgvenue] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment
Thread-Index: AQHW+yZMHrcjh6CsvkOSAjDyuZpf1KpICZSA
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 19:13:41 +0000
Message-ID: <0236E88C-38B3-4547-86D1-DA8D084F596F@cable.comcast.com>
References: <CAB75xn4N3zrfiHAdh_djQxui2-U5CutcN2sLzBE6DiWTm33QYQ@mail.gmail.com> <7A39E361-6EED-4157-82BB-B56E7921FECB@ietf.org> <0AB6B02A-B917-4C8B-867E-F20DEF2FED2C@cisco.com> <BL0PR14MB3779879BC3FD101D51261A13C3B39@BL0PR14MB3779.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <C2F94173-167B-459B-8550-BC13CFEDED64@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <C2F94173-167B-459B-8550-BC13CFEDED64@ietf.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.45.21011103
authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com;
x-originating-ip: [2601:41:200:d70:b56e:b844:1b23:ffaa]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 58084f6a-2bea-4fa4-4b5d-08d8c940fc38
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4254:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MN2PR11MB42549B701A5C079D7054B85AC7B39@MN2PR11MB4254.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4287.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(136003)(346002)(84050400001)(54906003)(76116006)(83380400001)(71200400001)(478600001)(66476007)(110136005)(66446008)(8936002)(66946007)(8676002)(2616005)(6506007)(4326008)(316002)(6486002)(4744005)(2906002)(5660300002)(6512007)(86362001)(66556008)(64756008)(33656002)(186003)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?utf-8?B?NmxWaCtLVWV3ZjAybHVBenBNYzAxQlg3SUxTMC9qVGlPbzV1UURha0ZMeXox?= =?utf-8?B?Znl3eXZJS1NaMmNKZHFuSHJyY052SFN0RHJwRU5ESHZxUnRPY3Z2akVrSFBG?= =?utf-8?B?eUpOd2pmN2YxYVpJVWk1NHBIOWFWOVRYeXZia3pPRmszOThKUmtvSCtmTkQ0?= =?utf-8?B?UHp2S2FmWlpqNUFxSzgyY1Yya1VzaEtaRmFKRnRCM1J2SmtEVEJORWlHK0FP?= =?utf-8?B?ekRWNDVDTVFvbS9wNjFoRGJEU0lNVWdLWWl5YzZIWVdWZUplNnNyb3VjK3dX?= =?utf-8?B?eHR1N21PRnV0SXNlTURobkJMKzdwZTAvczgreWhXd1I1VVFqT21ZUjA4OC9j?= =?utf-8?B?ZTdTZzNTL2w4cDU4L0NoYnpadURZakRaU2pjdUh4UGZrbnF1dE1MSWhCMHZO?= =?utf-8?B?K0JqeUFWVEtoSlJjR1RMV3ZvVkhWZG5lSzVTcmx1QzJDbkk3L0ovSjMzVFAr?= =?utf-8?B?c2J6OS9GOHJDd2hGdTJzNGFkNVFhazEzbGtaUEpjS29vSUFBMExvWThCQldD?= =?utf-8?B?RldESkY2cXBKNFRzNmJCb29yYmpObCtDbmI2ZXUwNzluaXZCcWV4WXdIc1Ay?= =?utf-8?B?NTFrM0FFK0Q0VUl4Zms4bGpDQ281NjE0ZUN0R05SYlFqZVFDUGVMTStBL2Nz?= =?utf-8?B?V0hXbG01MC9qKzdTcEtxcVNXdkZQaXdlSW9Nci9ldXFRYldNdHpmNHVCSTRu?= =?utf-8?B?OHVFMFVjcXFEYUZuQzYyUjV5R0o4dFpUTGpZa0FheWxXTXhhelZhNVdKWkc4?= =?utf-8?B?cktxSFc1R0d4VnR3bVdqYStWR1k2Y2dyaUcvaTRZRW1GaDFjYWVjY0NGT2xT?= =?utf-8?B?RCtlZTgvNFFVYjNqaEJKNjd6ZG9RcEl6WVMwTlFyNUpvVFBPNjZBcnQ4OWo1?= =?utf-8?B?cVFlemZHSmszZWtESFFXbGUwRnJpZ3Jwd1RncWxVSk9VMjEzc1lqcXhyWDdi?= =?utf-8?B?d2JhVndoMVVpSXNKWHJqSzlPRmVOSjZXT1pSbGZRZ2duUGlBUmcwajhkTUgz?= =?utf-8?B?V3llL0xTYk9jc3NYdnZvcldSV2daTUI4dlU0OUoyc3BPbVdXd3FQT2tGNVBq?= =?utf-8?B?Y1J6OEhReUMvZWlmSTJNelIrT0ZKb2FBbS9QOFY4eUcwdzkwZWdjRzVaQm5a?= =?utf-8?B?aFRUWHovRnZKRUkxOHUwaUNyT25FUW5veU02T2xXeTdoWXMydVdOZEc4VnV1?= =?utf-8?B?TUF6YjRSNGtXT2ZJK3JhWjB1Z3c5SDNzN0pQZURnWDhjTDFTTFRUa1pqSHp0?= =?utf-8?B?K3JFMGJSczNLY0VLZ1RNV21aZzRzS29NSFN2bWpUOVVnN2hodmtrbWNCY2Za?= =?utf-8?B?Y3lwNHRKWWlWNjVyVnF5bFV0RmhQTU9XQ3E4ZWlNUklkWHJsbFFMK09jclAv?= =?utf-8?B?RGtVYlNIYk5GN0d3clNOSVFsUEorcEtMTlZYcVpyajZHclJpMXU5M1VaRDgv?= =?utf-8?B?Vm13VlRRTXRGdm1TS0Iwby83V1UrcmtqYnNaQ0FKQmtoRXp3ZkJKTzRQNkFo?= =?utf-8?B?TEE2d2xVYlVUWVF0eDluanQvTkpNQ2t1RXE3Y3Jkbk9kd3pwMXBMM013MnEr?= =?utf-8?B?SHhCeVBJNG5ZOGo3R1FEVjZZb3ZmWU56ZWFOa3ZBNmQzOXV4eDgvQy9iOGg0?= =?utf-8?B?eG9FeC9Xa1l3bUlDMHdJTGJVWU96cHhBMjhPNkVCUkZzQlV5QnYzbUpZcUg5?= =?utf-8?B?dFNyYWhtazVNREJGNDhhd1hNdXRWclZhYVoycWVaWlZSK0RCSEVHNUMwTG01?= =?utf-8?B?U0JKdXA3M0hxRC9ET1dLb3NoZFYwZmNjT002YnB0UlJNcEp6dER2VE9BdU1V?= =?utf-8?B?QnBTd2RiN2Zhek1yak1UcjZxdTlwN0RPS3FXM0FvYVpnZ3hnOEpuQ1J5VnAv?= =?utf-8?Q?CGtrbsopfGrIV?=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=EG2evAY8mKWqtb44VB38iCnQBFFeu9ktHYTj+nsb3/ikt2kLPdhAVUR5GfV1gZpTfYD8h+aS7ibTxaRA6IpOe5LwFIM/C/ycm9K7FJswC51WMFpstJ3oZpgO95IyF71yLNXU2MMkjYG9LWO54+P7TfXbheEdK7sBZfYn9fWFA1BVYTAkPmnL5pqGhywGmK5m34YIiUsgCr2Iu2614sInEhxbsAFtRcceeTdvSgMMW3SmyUtDmz2ZOcvpnp+P3mXp8kgUUNLnsdEar3RNXEIu6W9cPg9Ns1C27bLCH0+7ZLDi/9uoFLRxiF2RaECOC4F1nyNg3UDPeeTVDcpW5eLIOA==
arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=6YwI3dp3l7LZOhhCNdRqqAvG+d4h5W781AQGvdN30cM=; b=hHYBbC8VfV8CCp/rUetLrs/L9CIaGhUOz6B3n3ySNc5KqMtIs9+p/O0qvSAnp0sdOaLWQq9VpUENasvGb4zJqBHq4m2eKY3bRG4gmLpwHmgkVxkC12t42e7j3BP3CtFKNa9VG1s2jGdPG0oJqqqwhNj/n3Yd6rx3Rc61kA25hs7ojKxQr29CVD0RoVueeBhTTmP3tKxLxLuUsvz+G8d6KtBU5LncAhjqfc4eH7nqf+45u/JXa/143sIjgWzkUVX2yVocDjr05WaTAxs7NXcAGatJiG61ECnlMPFtDg/ZLEQPLAfGFC/SrIMujkp8PCWm1ZRRbgwvUWCKFGW1Xl7z1A==
arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cable.comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cable.comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=cable.comcast.com; arc=none
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB4287.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: 58084f6a-2bea-4fa4-4b5d-08d8c940fc38
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Feb 2021 19:13:41.7973 (UTC)
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: skZDC9ywBd+8a7Mw80Q2TZtkP0BgiFW3B7BmZGaRLQiiIYagkt5YnhUJK5C/6Fb2TED+UbXLP6H7PnLbn/AOq61Aru/UXSPZiZBY9/GG7tY=
x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: MN2PR11MB4254
x-originatororg: cable.comcast.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <B72B4F548C8D1A439A250C234556DABB@namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWC
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.369, 18.0.737 definitions=2021-02-04_10:2021-02-04, 2021-02-04 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mtgvenue/FqNpOzVwLz_xYSyUT1Mxhn_0ysg>
Subject: Re: [Mtgvenue] [admin-discuss] Consultation on IETF Meeting venue assessment
X-BeenThere: mtgvenue@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List for email discussion of the IAOC meeting venue selection process." <mtgvenue.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mtgvenue>, <mailto:mtgvenue-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mtgvenue/>
List-Post: <mailto:mtgvenue@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mtgvenue-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue>, <mailto:mtgvenue-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 19:14:24 -0000

> Do we take it that this means that if all the hotels support VPN access and the venue itself supports unfiltered access (i.e. no need to use a VPN for access) then that is acceptable, even if VPNs are blocked or are illegal outside of the hotels and venue?

In the past IIRC this focused on the type of access available in the venue (and possibly the primary hotel as well but IMO as long as a VPN can be used it is a bit moot). Thus as long as we had unfiltered access in Beijing at IETF-79 it was fine - despite the fact that the average local citizen may have had filters or other restrictions. I also think if we focus on whether local citizens have unfettered access this will end up being a slippery slope - as many governments (even in the UK and EU) have localized content / access restrictions - so where to draw the line will always be a matter of debate.

JL