Re: [Mtgvenue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-14.txt

Mary Barnes <> Wed, 09 May 2018 22:50 UTC

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From: Mary Barnes <>
Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 17:50:09 -0500
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To: Ole Jacobsen <>
Cc: Mary B <>, mtgvenue <>, Ted Lemon <>, ietf <>
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Subject: Re: [Mtgvenue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-14.txt
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On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Ole Jacobsen <> wrote:

> On Wed, 9 May 2018, Mary B wrote:
> > Ole - you're way off the mark - mold is found universally throughout the
> > world and I'm sure there's likely fungi on other planets.  The problem is
> > that certain species only grow indoors when there is excess moisture and
> > improper maintenance.
> ***OLE: Excess moisture is either the result of something leaking or
> the result of high-humidity condensating (or just being present in the
> air). I have honestly never been to a tropical place where this does
> not hit you as soon you step off the plane. Leaks can be fixed, the
> latter is a lot harder to deal with comprehensively. Cold places have
> DRY air, so dry that we use humidifiers in the winter.
[MB] Overall outdoor air and indoor air in many places, yes. However, you
have places in any building that have excess humidity.  If you want to talk
about this stuff like you know what you are talking about, you might want
to read some of the materials I provided.  Being in a cold place does NOT
mean you won't have mold - the one article points out that there is excess
moisture in 30% of the homes in Norway.  And, the big problem I find in
many hotels in cold places is that if windows aren't properly sealed then
you can have lots of condensation which results in lots of water damage
around the windows. And, one of the cold places I lived as child
(Newfoundland) had a house with a crawl space and those frequently have
mold issues.   So, you are mis-informed on this point. [/MB]

> > And, you can determine a threshold using a HERTSMI or ERMI test.  A
> > HERTSMI score >15 is not a safe place.  And, I'm okay with meeting
> > in places that might be considered borderline for me because I can
> > take my meds, although it could negatively impact others.
> >
> ***OLE: Glad there is a test, but I still not sure what a spot-check
> would uncover that we could realistically deal with prior to venue
> selection, beyond the obvious extreme cases. The same goes for
> second-hand smoke which we all encounter every day in one form or
> another, some places more than others (I am in France at the moment,
> yikes).

[MB] And I am talking about extreme places.  My reaction in Singapore
points to it being an extremely toxic place. I don't live in a bubble.  I
travel about 40% of the time right now and Singapore and the place in Las
Vegas are the only meeting venues that have caused the intensely overt
reaction I had. [/MB]

> > BTW, your chemical sensitivity is actually a symptom of an issue with
> mold,
> > so you might want to consider whether it could be contributing to any
> > ongoing chronic health issues.  I'm happy to forward you research
> > documenting why this is.  You are likely genetically predisposed as the
> > issue is more common in those of Northern European descent.  And, you
> could
> > well be someone that could benefit from the IETF not having meetings in
> > moldy venues.
> ***OLE: Sure, I am just trying to point out that HUMIDITY is the
> source of much evil in this context, I'd love to see properly
> climate-controlled rooms, but I have not seen many in any hotel or
> meeting venue in the world. High humidity = tropical places, Singapore
> being a prime example.
[MB] Outdoors - yes. Indoors - no. See my point above about Las Vegas.
 You are just wrong on this one. [/MB]

>  >
> > Regards,
> > Mary.
> >
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