Re: [Mtgvenue] Martin Vigoureux's Yes on draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-15: (with COMMENT)

Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com> Fri, 08 June 2018 16:54 UTC

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From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>
To: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process@ietf.org>, <mtgvenue-chairs@ietf.org>, <mtgvenue@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 11:53:55 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Mtgvenue] Martin Vigoureux's Yes on draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-15: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Martin,

Well, that's a fraught question. "Race" is a deeply complicated and 
somewhat problematic word (see 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization) for some of 
the controversies), but since the term is still widely used in law and 
public policy, I think it's reasonable to use it here. The distinction 
usually made is that race involves visible physical attributes 
associated with a particular ethnicity or national origin, whether or 
not the person in question is actually of that ethnicity or national 
origin.

pr

On 6 Jun 2018, at 18:24, Martin Vigoureux wrote:

> Hello Pete,
>
> many thanks for your answer.
> So, maybe it's only a language barrier. What is the definition of race 
> in this document?
>
> Thank you
> martin
>
>
> Le 2018-06-05 à 21:47, Pete Resnick a écrit :
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> Thanks for the comment.
>>
>> Just so we have the context, here's the text in section 2.1:
>>
>> |2. Avoid meeting in countries with laws that effectively exclude 
>> people on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, 
>> national origin, citizenship, or gender identity. |
>>
>> In some contexts, "race" is not completely contained in "ethnicity" 
>> (sometimes also called "ethnic origin"), and certainly not 
>> vice-versa. The UN Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights 
>> uses both terms in their definition:
>>
>> "Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings, whatever our 
>> nationality, place of residence, sex, national or ethnic origin, 
>> colour, religion, language, or any other status."
>>
>> "The principle applies to everyone in relation to all human rights 
>> and freedoms and it prohibits discrimination on the basis of a list 
>> of non-exhaustive categories such as sex, race, colour and so on."
>>
>> http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Pages/WhatareHumanRights.aspx
>>
>> I've seen other formulations of the list. I don't think there's a 
>> problem to add "ethnicity" to the list in this document.
>>
>> pr
>>
>> On 5 Jun 2018, at 7:41, Martin Vigoureux wrote:
>>
>>
>>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     COMMENT:
>>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     Hello,
>>
>>     please forgive me for raising the following point, especially
>>     because I haven't
>>     participated in nor followed the discussions on that draft, but I
>>     would much
>>     prefer if "ethnicity" was used instead of "race".
>>
>>     Martin
>>