Re: [Mtgvenue] Martin Vigoureux's Yes on draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-15: (with COMMENT)

Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com> Mon, 11 June 2018 21:51 UTC

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Subject: Re: [Mtgvenue] Martin Vigoureux's Yes on draft-ietf-mtgvenue-iaoc-venue-selection-process-15: (with COMMENT)
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Thank you Pete

The fact that, as you say, this is a fraught question illustrates my 
point. There are indeed controversies on the possible definitions and 
use of that word. This is why I was proposing to use another word, 
possibly less controversial.
On the other hand, I fully agree with you that it is used in law and
public policies.
I guess I was influenced by the fact that, in France, that word has been 
removed from law, though it still remains in the constitution.

That being said, thank you for the discussion.
I'll live with whatever you end up deciding.

regards,
martin

Le 2018-06-08 à 18:53, Pete Resnick a écrit :
> Hi Martin,
> 
> Well, that's a fraught question. "Race" is a deeply complicated and 
> somewhat problematic word (see 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization) for some of 
> the controversies), but since the term is still widely used in law and 
> public policy, I think it's reasonable to use it here. The distinction 
> usually made is that race involves visible physical attributes 
> associated with a particular ethnicity or national origin, whether or 
> not the person in question is actually of that ethnicity or national 
> origin.
> 
> pr
> 
> On 6 Jun 2018, at 18:24, Martin Vigoureux wrote:
> 
>> Hello Pete,
>>
>> many thanks for your answer.
>> So, maybe it's only a language barrier. What is the definition of race 
>> in this document?
>>
>> Thank you
>> martin
>>
>>
>> Le 2018-06-05 à 21:47, Pete Resnick a écrit :
>>> Hi Martin,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the comment.
>>>
>>> Just so we have the context, here's the text in section 2.1:
>>>
>>> |2. Avoid meeting in countries with laws that effectively exclude 
>>> people on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, 
>>> national origin, citizenship, or gender identity. |
>>>
>>> In some contexts, "race" is not completely contained in "ethnicity" 
>>> (sometimes also called "ethnic origin"), and certainly not 
>>> vice-versa. The UN Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights 
>>> uses both terms in their definition:
>>>
>>> "Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings, whatever our 
>>> nationality, place of residence, sex, national or ethnic origin, 
>>> colour, religion, language, or any other status."
>>>
>>> "The principle applies to everyone in relation to all human rights 
>>> and freedoms and it prohibits discrimination on the basis of a list 
>>> of non-exhaustive categories such as sex, race, colour and so on."
>>>
>>> http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Pages/WhatareHumanRights.aspx
>>>
>>> I've seen other formulations of the list. I don't think there's a 
>>> problem to add "ethnicity" to the list in this document.
>>>
>>> pr
>>>
>>> On 5 Jun 2018, at 7:41, Martin Vigoureux wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>     COMMENT:
>>>     
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>     Hello,
>>>
>>>     please forgive me for raising the following point, especially
>>>     because I haven't
>>>     participated in nor followed the discussions on that draft, but I
>>>     would much
>>>     prefer if "ethnicity" was used instead of "race".
>>>
>>>     Martin
>>>
>