Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item
<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> Thu, 10 November 2016 07:20 UTC
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From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item
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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:20:36 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item
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Hi Joe, At least from where I sit, I don’t see this is different from how fallback to TCP is handled in MPTCP. For TCP, it would be good to record this in EDO and EOS specifications. Thank you. Cheers, Med De : Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] Envoyé : mercredi 9 novembre 2016 17:01 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN Cc : Mirja Kühlewind; Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be; multipathtcp@ietf.org Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item It might not be for MPTCP, but it's a huge issue for TCP. Which begs the question of whether MPTCP would then be diverging so far from TCP that it isn't TCP anymore. Joe On 11/9/2016 7:58 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: Re-, Thank you for the clarification. Noted. As I don’t have concrete cases where there will be a need to pick a particular port, I’m not sure this is a big issue. Cheers, Med De : Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] Envoyé : mercredi 9 novembre 2016 16:50 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN Cc : Mirja Kühlewind; Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be<mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>; multipathtcp@ietf.org<mailto:multipathtcp@ietf.org> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item On 11/9/2016 7:37 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: TCP is asked to connect once. You seem to now expect it to try twice - TCP cannot (it can't pick ports by itself) and user land cannot be expected to or may not be able to. [Med] How that is different from establishing many TCP subflows between the same pair of IP address, using distinct source port numbers: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mptcp-experience-07#section-3.4? The difference is that the ports of the primary flow are no longer under your control. I don't know if there's a workaround for MPTCP, but this is exactly why this technique cannot work for TCP in general. Further, if it doesn't work for TCP, then MPTCP is no longer TCP in some cases (which means it can't be used as such interchangeably). This subflow manager creates N subflows between the same pair of IP addresses. The N subflows are created by the client and differ only in the source port selected by the client. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Since the MPTCP Proxy in UC#2 is tracking TCP connections (TCP/MPTCP glue), it is the responsibility of the MPTCP Proxy to select the source port to use. This is similar to a NAT function. We are leveraging on the TCP BEHAVE recommendations. It might not be able to use the source port it wants either. [Med] The only case I see is when all external ports are exhausted. This is a very very extremely case. I'm speaking of a case where you want/need to pick both port numbers. [Med] Acked. Joe
- [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter item philip.eardley
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Robert Skog
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Yoshifumi Nishida
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE)
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … christian.jacquenet
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Robert Skog
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … philip.eardley
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Christoph Paasch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Christoph Paasch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Christoph Paasch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Joe Touch
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] potential MPTCP proxy charter … mohamed.boucadair