Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP
<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> Thu, 24 November 2016 10:32 UTC
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From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
To: "Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be" <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>, Sébastien Noel <noel@multitel.be>, "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>
Thread-Topic: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 10:32:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP
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Hi Olivier, Please see inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Olivier Bonaventure [mailto:Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be] > Envoyé : mercredi 23 novembre 2016 15:08 > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Sébastien Noel; philip.eardley@bt.com > Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP > > Med, > > > >> -----Message d'origine----- > >> De : multipathtcp [mailto:multipathtcp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de > >> Sébastien Noel > >> Envoyé : mercredi 23 novembre 2016 12:09 > >> À : philip.eardley@bt.com > >> Cc : multipathtcp@ietf.org > >> Objet : Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP > >> > >> Phil, > >> > >>> Do people have any experimental results /experiences they could share > of > >>> running UDP applications over MPTCP sub-flows? Would be interested to > >> hear > >>> about the issues. > >>> I guess VoIP and Quic would be the most interesting ones. > >> > >> To understand the interactions between QUIC and an underlying MPTCP > >> transport, we performed some experiments by running QUIC over OpenVPN > >> that runs itself over an MPTCP connection. This is the closest scenario > >> to what you are discussing based on existing open-source software. > > > > [Med] The schema we are investigating does not include this cascaded > layers. It is only UDP payload transported in plain MPTCP connections. > > > The cascading layers increase the CPU and byte overhead, but the > interactions between the congestion control schemes and the reliablity > mechanisms remains. [Med] My point is that we need to isolate the impact of those cascaded layers on the CPU/Performance efficiency from pure interactions between the CCs. In the experiment, the CPU is not a concern given > that PCs were used as routers. The byte overhead influences the maximum > efficiency of the solution but not how it degrades when there is latency > or losses. The degration comes form the coupling between the congestion > control and the reliability mechanisms of both QUIC and MPTCP. > > >> OpenVPN includes some framing to carry UDP and > >> encryption/authentication. These mechanisms add CPU overhead and byte > >> overhead compared to transporting QUIC over a plain MPTCP connection, > >> but this does not change the results of the experiments. > >> > > > > [Med] I wouldn't drop that conclusion as the overall performance depends > also on the overhead prepended to packets to be injected over the tunnel. > > > > Putting that aside, can you please indicate how the traffic is > distributed among available subflows? FWIW, the target traffic > distribution policy for the hybrid access is to use the fixed line first, > and then grab some resources from the cellular link if needed. So the > target objective is not 1+1! > > > > That's a policy issue. The experiment was whether both links can be used > efficiently when running QUIC over MPTCP to transport a long file. If > your policy delays the utilisation of the second link when the first is > full, then you will get even lower performance since MPTCP will delay > the utilisation of the subflows. [Med] It is a policy, that's true... but it is a key point to decide what are acceptable performance or not. Assuming 1+1 is putting the bar too high for the deployments plans I'm aware of. [SNIP] > >> > >> As you can see, with QUIC over MPTCP sub-flows, performance seems to > >> drop as soon as you have an unreliable medium or as soon as you have > >> latency > >> > >> The sames tests were performed again, but this time with HTTP over > >> end-to-end MPTCTP, to have a point of comparison > > > > [Med] When do you say "end-to-end MPTCP" do you mean MPTCP is enabled by > the client and the server? > > > > Yes. [Med] I wouldn't use that as a reference. In order to have comparable results the reference IMHO is to have the same cascade layers for TCP flows that will be proxied into MPTCP connections. Given our experience with TCP/MPTCP proxies, the result would have > been the same with TCP/MPTCP proxies running on the two routers, but > these proxies could not be integrated in this setup for practical reasons. [Med] It would be more interesting if similar setup conditions are used to have fair comparisons.
- [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP philip.eardley
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Alan Ford
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Markus.Brunner3
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Christoph Paasch
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP N.Leymann
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Markus.Brunner3
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP William Ivancic
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Sébastien Noel
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP philip.eardley
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [multipathtcp] MPTCP carrying UDP N.Leymann