Re: [dnsext] we need help to make names the same, was draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution-02 comment

Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@icsi.berkeley.edu> Wed, 16 February 2011 17:39 UTC

Return-Path: <dnsext-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: namedroppers-archive-gleetwall6@lists.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-namedroppers-archive-gleetwall6@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2039B3A6D59; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:39:07 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: dnsext@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsext@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EDE03A6D59 for <dnsext@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:39:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_55=0.6]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLm5CPi5tAbA for <dnsext@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:39:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from taffy.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (taffy.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU [192.150.187.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E6233A6C9F for <dnsext@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:39:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gala.icsi.berkeley.edu (gala.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU [192.150.186.168]) (Authenticated sender: nweaver) by taffy.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Postfix) with ESMTP id 511ED36A405; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:39:34 -0800 (PST)
References: <4D5B5E81.1050602@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <20110216073338.7251.qmail@joyce.lan> <F21692535B1A478F95D9E3AA048E8037@ics.forth.gr> <20110216165921.GW96213@shinkuro.com> <3B90ED2E-980D-4B01-889F-447D66D0B58D@insensate.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <3B90ED2E-980D-4B01-889F-447D66D0B58D@insensate.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082)
Message-Id: <5171BE80-37A7-4665-983F-AD06C048F39F@icsi.berkeley.edu>
From: Nicholas Weaver <nweaver@icsi.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:39:33 -0800
To: Lawrence Conroy <lconroy@insensate.co.uk>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082)
Cc: dnsext@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dnsext] we need help to make names the same, was draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution-02 comment
X-BeenThere: dnsext@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Extensions working group discussion list <dnsext.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext>, <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dnsext>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsext@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext>, <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: dnsext-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: dnsext-bounces@ietf.org

On Feb 16, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Lawrence Conroy wrote:
> 
> To which I reply:
>  In principle, universal solutions trump narrow solutions that cover fewer use cases.
> BUT ...
>  So far, this thread has touched on/drifted towards VERY difficult problems, with
> alleged combinatorial explosions and other evils.
> 
> Vaggelis seemed to suggest that those allegations might not be important in practice.
> Almost all registries will have rules on bundling and mapping. Thus one may not need
> to "solve for infinity" to reach a solution that covers many or even most cases.
> His comment appeared reasonable (to me :), in rebutting allegations of impossibility.

One stupid observation:  Combinatorial explosion, if the protocol is done right, should not be a problem even in the 'solve for near infinity' case:

The effect on resolvers/caches is effectively nonexistent: they only need to store the actual instances queried for.


The effect on authorities is harder, but still not that hard IF the authority can dynamically generate the needed translations on the fly.

Thus the CNAME+DNAME style of aliasing should one finally be settled on (x.y -> r.s AND *.x.y -> *.r.s) is a sufficient mechanism if the authorities who want the combinatorial explosion case can use code to synthesize (x'.y' -> r.s) plus the associated RRSIGs on the fly.


Thus I'll argue that any solution SHOULD support the 'solve for infinity' case.  There is no real reason not to.

_______________________________________________
dnsext mailing list
dnsext@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext