Re: [dnsext] we need help to make names the same, was draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution-02 comment

Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Tue, 22 February 2011 20:34 UTC

Return-Path: <dnsext-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: namedroppers-archive-gleetwall6@lists.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-namedroppers-archive-gleetwall6@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EF33A6938; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:34:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: dnsext@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsext@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697673A6974 for <dnsext@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:34:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bRrTJEwzjT3T for <dnsext@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:34:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp [131.112.32.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 41B533A6955 for <dnsext@ietf.org>; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:34:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 89418 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2011 20:47:01 -0000
Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (131.112.32.132) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 22 Feb 2011 20:47:01 -0000
Message-ID: <4D641DB6.4090705@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 05:33:58 +0900
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: dnsext@ietf.org
References: <20110216073338.7251.qmail@joyce.lan> <F21692535B1A478F95D9E3AA048E8037@ics.forth.gr> <20110216165921.GW96213@shinkuro.com> <3B90ED2E-980D-4B01-889F-447D66D0B58D@insensate.co.uk> <20110216174011.GZ96213@shinkuro.com> <20110218143653.GC84482@bikeshed.isc.org> <20110218151209.GF66684@shinkuro.com> <4D5EEE09.4080405@dougbarton.us> <20110218222950.GL74065@shinkuro.com> <4D5EF74C.9080603@dougbarton.us><20110218230905.GN74065@shinkuro.com> <4D5F270F.20401@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <199C7B2B4228461FB024E59A990DB46D@ics.forth.gr>
In-Reply-To: <199C7B2B4228461FB024E59A990DB46D@ics.forth.gr>
Subject: Re: [dnsext] we need help to make names the same, was draft-yao-dnsext-identical-resolution-02 comment
X-BeenThere: dnsext@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS Extensions working group discussion list <dnsext.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext>, <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dnsext>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsext@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext>, <mailto:dnsext-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: dnsext-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: dnsext-bounces@ietf.org

Vaggelis Segredakis wrote:

>> err, well, yes in principle, and no in practice. that is, a series of
>> pick-according-to-taste-or-belief{blunders, errors, accidents, acts of
>> genius} has lead to some specific use cases. han sc/tc. greek tonos.
>> failing to solve leads to unintended consequences.
> 
> I couldn't agree more with your last sentence above. Before landing in this
> WG with this issue I tried to explain the situation back when the first
> protocol of IDNs was designed.

It was about 14 or 15 years ago, when I, and some others, argued
against localized domain names exactly the same reasons as today:
sameness including case correspondence of accented characters and
improper (prohibitively complex) support for bidirectionality.

So, you have been warned.

> The belief then that a protocol should not take into
> consideration specific issues but rather stick to the "domains
> are not words" motto brought us all ten years later to the point
> of discussing adding rr types in DNS, rather than designing
> correctly a translating application-layer protocol right from
> the beginning, with formatting data etc to solve all problems.

Some of the problems can be solved only by fundamental redesign
of character encoding (effectively abandoning Unicode).

Avoiding to do so, more than 10 years have wasted already.

						Masataka Ohta
_______________________________________________
dnsext mailing list
dnsext@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext