Re: [nat66] NPTv6 deals with "packets", not with "datagrams" - to be corrected after draft-14

RFC 768 (the UDP RFC) uses the term "user datagram" to refer to the
transport layer payload and "internet datagram" to refer to the network layer
packet.

(It obviously does not reference http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/datagram
and presumably predates it by decades.)

In any case, the point is that "datagram" by itself is used in a layer-agnostic 
fashion and requires an adjective prefix to be specific, at least as of 1980.

-Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nat66-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nat66-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Fred Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:04 AM
> To: Rémi Després
> Cc: IESG; NAT66 HappyFunBall
> Subject: Re: [nat66] NPTv6 deals with "packets", not with "datagrams" - to be
> corrected after draft-14
> 
> 
> On May 3, 2011, at 1:38 AM, Rémi Després wrote:
> >> I also am confused by your use of the term "datagram". A datagram is not
> a transport layer construct,
> >
> > Isn't User Datagram Protocol a transport layer protocol?
> 
> Yes, and unless the datagram is carried in IP, it's not actually a datagram. I
> refer you to the definition of the term. A datagram is self-addressed and
> contains all of the information necessary to deliver it from its source to its
> destination.
> 
> >> it's a network layer construct.
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/datagram
> >
> > To know what a datagram is in IETF, RFC's are IMHO better than an online
> dictionary
> 
> If you want to play that game, so be it. The word "datagram" (along with
> "catenet", which has largely been replaced by the term "internet", in lwer
> case) was common in the 1970's and 1980's, and the definition was well
> known to those present. So I don't find a place that says "when I say
> 'datagram' I mean '...'" in the RFC series - that was in published conference
> papers circa 1972 when the datagram model was first being proposed as an
> alternative to virtual circuits. What I do find, however, is this in IEN #48. The
> Internet Engineering Notes (IENs) were  a parallel document track used in
> the 1970's. IEN #48 is "The Catenet Model for Internetworking", written by
> Vint Cerf. It says, among its assumptions, that
> 
> 	it is assumed that the
> 	participating network allows switched access so that any source
> 	computer can quickly enter datagrams for successive and different
> 	destination computers with little or no delay (i.e., on the order
> 	of tens of milliseconds or less switching time).
> 
> 	Under these assumptions, we can readily include networks which
> 	offer "datagram" interfaces to subscribing host computers.  That
> 	is, the switching is done by the network based on a destination
> 	address contained in each datagram passing across the host to
> 	network interface.
> 
> A datagram is, unlike a packet carried in a virtual circuit, a message that
> carries its own destination address and can therefore be routed by the
> network without setting up such a circuit first.
> 
> > I hope the IESG won't accept your new interpretation.
> 
> Well, if they have a problem with it, they can ask the designers of the
> architecture for their opinions. "Datagram" is a well known and well
> understood term.
> 
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