[ncrg] Notes from the NCRG Call, 11 Jun 2013

"Michael Behringer (mbehring)" <mbehring@cisco.com> Tue, 11 June 2013 14:59 UTC

Return-Path: <mbehring@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ncrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ncrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D194321F8D79 for <ncrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 07:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rr8Aq-o+AqiM for <ncrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 07:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D86121F8717 for <ncrg@irtf.org>; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 07:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8287; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1370962736; x=1372172336; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=yhm7rGCMBZJkJnuFgqqARLE2PUoVw+scpSE4fFL39gg=; b=IhrOVWeTVj37MJ5BdWm8sdUL559ralHexosbMiL0KbnQH0ngd9NxEeJe ka4z2RPHY2XR3bnH9Jd2+NKIFePJqHZhag89nS54fp+/qmx50f+bZ1GaA 8xR3WdTkgbrkBEwhZbnVLAtOXHZoiD2izwbV6taFQzhy+dt7Dl+jA7/CN I=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ar0FAOM5t1GtJV2b/2dsb2JhbABZgkVEMEm+S34WbQeCJQEELV4BKlYmAQQbiAWZX6B/jwGDN2EDqQKDD4In
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="4.87,845,1363132800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="218464382"
Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Jun 2013 14:58:55 +0000
Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r5BEwsXa008202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for <ncrg@irtf.org>; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:58:54 GMT
Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.194]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:58:54 -0500
From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" <mbehring@cisco.com>
To: "ncrg@irtf.org" <ncrg@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: Notes from the NCRG Call, 11 Jun 2013
Thread-Index: Ac5msY2fXUO9ze50R96/QZMbeIraMA==
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:58:54 +0000
Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF1D51F63F@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com>
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.55.194.22]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF1D51F63Fxmbrcdx14ciscoc_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: [ncrg] Notes from the NCRG Call, 11 Jun 2013
X-BeenThere: ncrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Network Complexity Research Group <ncrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/ncrg>, <mailto:ncrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.irtf.org/mail-archive/web/ncrg>
List-Post: <mailto:ncrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ncrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/ncrg>, <mailto:ncrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:59:01 -0000

Notes from the NCRG Call, 11 Jun 2013

Attendees: Luca Caviglione; Monique Morrow; Tina Tsou; Michael Behringer (notes)

Excused: Dave Meyer; Rana Sircar; Alvaro Retana;



Michael presented a proposal to move forward: Complexity is generally defined as a property of a system with interacting components. We had a large number of discussions on various aspects of complexity. Some are about general complexity, some are about complexity in networks.

In the framework draft we should separate them (they are all over the document right now). We should have a first section that describes generic aspects of system complexity: RYF, tradeoffs and optimisations, predictability, catastrophic failure, emergence, etc.

Then a second section should describe the system that we're focusing on. The scope of our work. Network Complexity is a property of a system, the network; we should define this system, and its components. An example:



The system "network" contains:

*              The physical network, which in turn contains:

-              Network devices, links, frequencies, ...

*              Management components, which in turn contain:

-              NMS/OSS, NTP server, AAA server, SDN controller, ...

*              The network administration, which in turn contains:

-              Human admins, organisational structures

*              ??? Network users, which in turn contains: (should this be considered?)

-              "customers" (and their hardware?)



We had some initial discussion, but need to continue here.



What do people think about a general section, plus a section that defines our scope in this way? It's not sufficient, but would be a starting point.



Other suggestions? Ideas?

Michael