[Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees] NEMOPS Workshop Report
Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu> Mon, 17 March 2025 06:15 UTC
Return-Path: <hardaker@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40772C9486F for <nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org>; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=isi.edu
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LezhaXTwi1J7 for <nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org>; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com (mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com [67.231.147.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7740BC9485D for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0280942.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com (8.18.1.2/8.18.1.2) with ESMTP id 52H6F7eq001571 for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:07 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isi.edu; h=mime-version : references : in-reply-to : from : date : message-id : subject : to : cc : content-type; s=proofpoint1; bh=UJqDJswbpyCy41ZkWmFK9XhqKxJl+yE4TWtACdhO2dA=; b=LNzhAQKQ4gOG45fkBokrhFq//l9NBjYkwxX8p0RzAU/BxWxcsJiHMKUL4iGTTCQFREdq ther0fit6PP+/0ZzP0JLuw02q4R4Ae7FyffewSMJ80wdtCzRYUg+cBEjovgCWBAyc3Lh WSu+WlOn19DIaucG9ap17JO3Wjpn7/z56zfymFZQ11EHWKVuy6ebpI5gShvGpB3Fq6Q+ xyfg6IESqBgbuE/LZXniyv/ojUipGZPBcYHV/6UB6dON3Voefw8BqnOxHI0+9Yjvvo+l +AkoLgtRrq0lY87sdT/B7TmLzSU9JkhUJKTWNguGn+QoMqFYORuVUMSdbmw8n4N/RALh ig==
Received: from mail-vk1-f197.google.com (mail-vk1-f197.google.com [209.85.221.197]) by mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 45d8c19cf9-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:06 -0700
Received: by mail-vk1-f197.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-523f35c2220so5490083e0c.2 for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1742192105; x=1742796905; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=UJqDJswbpyCy41ZkWmFK9XhqKxJl+yE4TWtACdhO2dA=; b=ikQMVTiCeaplkTFo22tLZoGGJ2EJ4FDmSH6ajnFijsyidPCVq1fwC78R/5698QjuqQ nwEmOEMQIWGzIoeC+LfgN1XIhA2VFpUxnQ8v0uJ97ywX68uzTdfrBLYHOC7qdpYWSy2v o0NhTU7pUOufEVvaeRHzMIMuvQwsuYmu8iA02AK0jsfW9h8F5NvG4Z/DAJNPrLezudH6 i7qGMcn4HjGxoCg5RYqRg5PLc3mu6c+N38SRsLdh/Bsw6g3OFIBJRWQNnJ30II+H0qca rppHN/lT4KLiO001bEt3Qqayny5fFi+kPObAtAQMy2fVrr6j+dHU32RxKcvUCJR0mYp9 wrvA==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVpUSaM7MpRuUyWCPrvQSF4Ek5BcarOqOw07tRcRRq6A4lthf8WGW4YCozbvaYGtVt6UQvDuFx1xeSFL2j9sL8=@iab.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxci3mqHwcabWSVBYBTyEDY3Ue9ArK6mt4Abs7A1R7cgmso9FMq eOKc30dnF6XejW2Q1HiFAPUNZYSdZtsnnJXL/Qwslc5mczAXJAGTN6G8qzSBCBtal2QPaBGlbiH jPVisdbmFgcfI2a3VDh4zBV1G+Wb8JMBrqDA+QjpH1jXzHr01Rr2h/omgU5kcYPwuCAdaDS0vqy e6z8SniNdJx5eMYL8sYaiu47BBJ6k=
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs1uvPQNomMeRnv4/QIfKMF007TlJNtWR7hYlOqCiBlMGaR+eF6tsDiow0Jvnr RVnIaXM0XcrGWXHtWFCaD6ogzqLgiZt9k5MS0soOzIJ4qmQZUZZ3m6H9Ypg1kE/0vzlie0YQi+J qXYxwgtQP/HGqepUVxNAnZkFBABsTS
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:d27:b0:51d:e9c0:e607 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-524498a3aa7mr8114669e0c.4.1742192104993; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IELDkHHIY9V/Orp6WF/tQbvJfbZRkvtc2xyAYR5jPin2tBdohYsE43yUI6outO6f6Vevxb5qZhJ4ZguCQh+D4k=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:d27:b0:51d:e9c0:e607 with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-524498a3aa7mr8114666e0c.4.1742192104630; Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAP7zK5YV5s2-0jutfN0mg3CBUNbZgA4KJbkFdqFXvbEqphsj-Q@mail.gmail.com> <Z8WSJAf4kAFPm9LK@alice.eecs.jacobs-university.de> <CAP7zK5YTOO3mMHkea4ovts+k7u-w0i5Ddu9Ox6eqi4R7JK+OCw@mail.gmail.com> <CANk3-NCzszo3NS5qtgHW3Ca9DwmvDZd1KEe5TfpcoDGwMYAVMw@mail.gmail.com> <A7E56A76-7FD3-488D-9967-ADC467D698AA@juniper.net>
In-Reply-To: <A7E56A76-7FD3-488D-9967-ADC467D698AA@juniper.net>
From: Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2025 23:14:27 -0700
X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1Jp9ec4goffZg9Lr_isJSMvhMxFU_4yYdE9ScC7jdiEmPq43OcO8VVkhuqs
Message-ID: <CANk3-NAQDhzpN5jHFs8XcG6vMN=b7DGhZHVqD8r_xeD4bie3wQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000870a33063083b5f2"
X-Proofpoint-GUID: bz4s3EIzqU93m7wKfIJ75a2jfb8PjRVE
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: bz4s3EIzqU93m7wKfIJ75a2jfb8PjRVE
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1093,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-03-17_01,2025-03-17_01,2024-11-22_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2502280000 definitions=main-2503170043
Message-ID-Hash: 62OK4TKAXCHWGWBNXNQ2CZA5OZLMT4IB
X-Message-ID-Hash: 62OK4TKAXCHWGWBNXNQ2CZA5OZLMT4IB
X-MailFrom: hardaker@isi.edu
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com>, Jürgen Schönwälder <jschoenwaelder@constructor.university>, nemops-interest@iab.org, nemops-workshop-attendees@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees] NEMOPS Workshop Report
List-Id: Next Era of Network Management Operations <nemops-interest.iab.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nemops-interest/Vzdx7yzFmiNTAUw1wWx7Iok7wxs>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/nemops-interest>
List-Help: <mailto:nemops-interest-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:nemops-interest-owner@iab.org>
List-Post: <mailto:nemops-interest@iab.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:nemops-interest-join@iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:nemops-interest-leave@iab.org>
> > > > I think there are four items here, summarized as: > > a) NETCONF has some successful deployments. > b) Many operators (all, really) manage some devices that don't support > NETCONF. > c) More acceptance of NETCONF will help. > d) RESTCONF is seen by some as helpful also. > > It might help to pull them into separate paragraphs with more details, > since each claim stands on its own, and none were universal. > Hi Phil. Thanks for the suggestions. Note that we were trying to document the thinking in the room around what conclusions were actually not fully agreed to (and not necessarily a particular direction that individual members think were the hopeful "fix" to the discussion). So I think the real problem is that b) is actually there to back up a). And c) and d) are really a hopeful direction but not everyone there thought it was a path that would definitely work, (though I think the majority probably did). So how about this replacement instead: 1. Some, but not all, saw NETCONF for configuration as being successful in some larger-scale deployments. Although this statement is true in some contexts, many operators indicated their need to rely on other forms of access to manage their networks such as CLIs, expect scripts, and other protocols. 2. Many hope that NETCONF, and RESTCONF more specifically, will continue to move to a long-term configuration management solution. However, some participants doubted whether the protocol and its data models can ever be truly ubiquitous and keep pace with the device deployment pace. -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI
- [Nemops-interest] NEMOPS Workshop Report Dhruv Dhody
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [arch-d] Re: NEMOPS Worksho… Arnaud Taddei
- [Nemops-interest] Re: NEMOPS Workshop Report Michael Richardson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Kristian Larsson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Michael Richardson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Mahesh Jethanandani
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Michael Richardson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Wes Hardaker
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Jürgen Schönwälder
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Dhruv Dhody
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Wes Hardaker
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Phil Shafer
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [External] [Nemops-workshop… Brad Peters
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Wes Hardaker
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Benoit Claise
- [Nemops-interest] Re: NEMOPS Workshop Report Dhruv Dhody