[Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees] Re: NEMOPS Workshop Report
Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu> Mon, 03 March 2025 20:29 UTC
Return-Path: <hardaker@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13834624A12 for <nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 3 Mar 2025 12:29:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.797
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bByjZ5JGkzfl for <nemops-interest@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 3 Mar 2025 12:29:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com (mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com [67.231.147.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D13E76249FD for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Mon, 3 Mar 2025 12:29:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0280942.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com (8.18.1.2/8.18.1.2) with ESMTP id 523DqJnA009984 for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Mon, 3 Mar 2025 12:29:53 -0800
Received: from mail-ua1-f71.google.com (mail-ua1-f71.google.com [209.85.222.71]) by mx0e-006c3502.gpphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 4541x4ssbk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 12:29:52 -0800
Received: by mail-ua1-f71.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-85c8a0d07f2so6118191241.0 for <nemops-interest@iab.org>; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 12:29:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741033791; x=1741638591; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=lZbsuYnSHlFTuNoOXGF3ZKLSTJXjsWT/O+ATVTcZlE0=; b=VybYuCKr/XWxMcEBlXYaNfjdKF5ACwaenfMvIixZU9YHRlXG8Ny5scyl61uZxt6G40 Gwtsh4TyBkYKnP/IfhhptgyQwbMAkyAsuhmdbopGngwVX7g71sjIB7bXU4aYayEosiaN YGAzAW/y2qiS2pZswOq5jEsA4dbFMc1RjJdud0fPo7+zWzg0vL+HH+xxiShNd5u4Wz6h H2/ftrUoCICqdKsr9YlTgN3eMmlFDFHDIjMwYJRTgUMFEkbJwUGXOlEymXQ2zWG31Iku YqrP72KYNTLqtTiavh0bfbdx3fzrg1GlTIxZfXgfq6MkkiudFk+ncTvOxY3cWcbLKhgT Atlw==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUFk36OX0NPQbeqyn3nRmqW/o287q3LR9bXC3kjClKNzU0QV7AOHA0tqmk4cXukWi8TcloZpB8nCOr3SG21NDA=@iab.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwIJdCm6Asy2HrxPG4p1+o/IDXB4+vkS3NCjzFLEBb1R03WBMq9 F1xB2koaHBb/4DG+NIeu+hJUhdUeeBnW4BxKioVjmDmk+Ncf3oTCCY5xKR30MFMhMnwQzYFY/jg 5NjgCz/Z9SG+Jbby5I9wCmt81MDuJBZJrggvn2oL33rejvD/TY10Hj3m11nrAjXolUYQGR1nGeI HaNNg9UNUhul++ZIhrh9rPrVtXDW4=
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs2NyfM3ThIBO60TnXeAF5ie1sfDqsdLvKuW/QgywaVAPSBXa5Oma4PKTqD8kj Jq9RyJGt9MekcewgiuT8+b9JfzRVYTFGkVVxJnUwbtb7jjHBIV0/3InBiN086SrnyEHDmdezycn k=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:6e89:b0:4c1:869b:7db4 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4c1869b7f3bmr4148885137.9.1741033790850; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 12:29:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGX0mbqDqIpibU3NUd0GihRWF+7dDnzQH3HSk0d6neMK4ikq0fuM95HyK/wfKiolnZ/1rf1U/FSltlnA3YWlvw=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:6e89:b0:4c1:869b:7db4 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4c1869b7f3bmr4148876137.9.1741033790446; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 12:29:50 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAP7zK5YV5s2-0jutfN0mg3CBUNbZgA4KJbkFdqFXvbEqphsj-Q@mail.gmail.com> <Z8WSJAf4kAFPm9LK@alice.eecs.jacobs-university.de> <CAP7zK5YTOO3mMHkea4ovts+k7u-w0i5Ddu9Ox6eqi4R7JK+OCw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7zK5YTOO3mMHkea4ovts+k7u-w0i5Ddu9Ox6eqi4R7JK+OCw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Wes Hardaker <hardaker@isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2025 12:29:14 -0800
X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JpK8IZVuyxbycU2DkJrUbYHuvJkrNE-JxHPAb9qCPK35PUWjkcoAnEiqg4
Message-ID: <CANk3-NCzszo3NS5qtgHW3Ca9DwmvDZd1KEe5TfpcoDGwMYAVMw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009f32e5062f760452"
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: EG1hHuqwPsj7b5h-sOec0NR7dxrG1q-n
X-Proofpoint-GUID: EG1hHuqwPsj7b5h-sOec0NR7dxrG1q-n
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1093,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-03-03_10,2025-03-03_04,2024-11-22_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2502100000 definitions=main-2503030157
Message-ID-Hash: RUIJW7VB4VTXY3ID4WFIQNJQFYIDGWGT
X-Message-ID-Hash: RUIJW7VB4VTXY3ID4WFIQNJQFYIDGWGT
X-MailFrom: hardaker@isi.edu
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Jürgen Schönwälder <jschoenwaelder@constructor.university>, nemops-interest@iab.org, nemops-workshop-attendees@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees] Re: NEMOPS Workshop Report
List-Id: Next Era of Network Management Operations <nemops-interest.iab.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nemops-interest/gKmBWBAQprmFPcf6MJhkazbUTOM>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/nemops-interest>
List-Help: <mailto:nemops-interest-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:nemops-interest-owner@iab.org>
List-Post: <mailto:nemops-interest@iab.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:nemops-interest-join@iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:nemops-interest-leave@iab.org>
Thanks Dhruv, that's certainly better. And thank you Jürgen for bringing this up. I was the one that tried to craft that section and in the end after reviewing the notes from the final conversation it all really amounted to one bullet point, which did seem odd to document that way and I never found a better way. I think part of the problem is the section title "Additional work needed". Maybe a better title, in addition to Dhruv's improvements, would be "Conclusions that did not reach consensus during the takeways discussion" so it's very clear it's a subjection of just the key takeaways section (3.4)? Thoughts? On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 5:26 AM Dhruv Dhody <dd@dhruvdhody.com> wrote: > Hi Jürgen, > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 4:57 PM Jürgen Schönwälder > <jschoenwaelder@constructor.university> wrote: > >> Thanks for putting this report together. I think it is a decent >> summary what we talked about. The only thing I find a bit misplaced is >> section 3.4.5, additional work is apparently needed in many areas and >> it is unclear why this item 1 is specifically highlighted. >> >> > Dhruv: This section is meant to capture points that remained unresolved > during live editing of key takeaways (section 3.4). I’ll add some > clarifying text to my working copy on GitHub. > > > https://github.com/intarchboard/draft-iab-nemops-workshop-report/commit/4d15fd93201d80bcdc3076f75c7f8ccb31ffb858 > <https://urldefense.us/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_intarchboard_draft-2Diab-2Dnemops-2Dworkshop-2Dreport_commit_4d15fd93201d80bcdc3076f75c7f8ccb31ffb858&d=DwMFaQ&c=qzHnJIRvjI6L-clJH8JwLQvf_Iq43fzikf6aoxZgMb8&r=0c5g_jBisMd0Mvrv260WjCsDo_lphr-fsVao5L9S4DI&m=NTtW9VH7rWRyeReZ1x112VLCaemPtL2Qz0Jj0OGTAD9m0T7CnW8Q9IumBz9nb-mF&s=F5uI2ZGfgVT_Vukux46BZKph79bV7Hb_uEmGCwhRkpc&e=> > > Thanks! > Dhruv > > > > >> /js >> >> On Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 12:02:30PM +0530, Dhruv Dhody wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > Wes and I have posted the initial version of the NEMOPS Workshop Report >> - >> > >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-nemops-workshop-report/ >> <https://urldefense.us/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Diab-2Dnemops-2Dworkshop-2Dreport_&d=DwMFaQ&c=qzHnJIRvjI6L-clJH8JwLQvf_Iq43fzikf6aoxZgMb8&r=0c5g_jBisMd0Mvrv260WjCsDo_lphr-fsVao5L9S4DI&m=NTtW9VH7rWRyeReZ1x112VLCaemPtL2Qz0Jj0OGTAD9m0T7CnW8Q9IumBz9nb-mF&s=ULfpKooWVyvASwFWQDEfWWem_moxKEJTzlJ-z7NcR7A&e=> >> > >> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-iab-nemops-workshop-report-01.html >> <https://urldefense.us/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_archive_id_draft-2Diab-2Dnemops-2Dworkshop-2Dreport-2D01.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=qzHnJIRvjI6L-clJH8JwLQvf_Iq43fzikf6aoxZgMb8&r=0c5g_jBisMd0Mvrv260WjCsDo_lphr-fsVao5L9S4DI&m=NTtW9VH7rWRyeReZ1x112VLCaemPtL2Qz0Jj0OGTAD9m0T7CnW8Q9IumBz9nb-mF&s=qy-3tA-m3cMJc0ZWx7qUJH-PqU7qEivfoM-M8IQAglc&e=> >> > >> > We’d appreciate your feedback, ideally on the nemops-interest@iab.org >> list >> > or directly to the authors. You can also submit a PR on GitHub: >> > >> > https://github.com/intarchboard/draft-iab-nemops-workshop-report >> <https://urldefense.us/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_intarchboard_draft-2Diab-2Dnemops-2Dworkshop-2Dreport&d=DwMFaQ&c=qzHnJIRvjI6L-clJH8JwLQvf_Iq43fzikf6aoxZgMb8&r=0c5g_jBisMd0Mvrv260WjCsDo_lphr-fsVao5L9S4DI&m=NTtW9VH7rWRyeReZ1x112VLCaemPtL2Qz0Jj0OGTAD9m0T7CnW8Q9IumBz9nb-mF&s=4GM5--2O_fsnGn_KkS3ZvJOezcp1ANtFOW_mYNw1G5I&e=> >> > >> > Reminder: The report summarizes the proceedings of the workshop and does >> > not necessarily reflect the IAB’s views or positions. >> > >> > Thanks! >> > Dhruv & Wes >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Nemops-workshop-attendees mailing list -- >> nemops-workshop-attendees@iab.org >> > To unsubscribe send an email to nemops-workshop-attendees-leave@iab.org >> >> >> -- >> Jürgen Schönwälder Constructor University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> > _______________________________________________ > Nemops-workshop-attendees mailing list -- > nemops-workshop-attendees@iab.org > To unsubscribe send an email to nemops-workshop-attendees-leave@iab.org > -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI
- [Nemops-interest] NEMOPS Workshop Report Dhruv Dhody
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [arch-d] Re: NEMOPS Worksho… Arnaud Taddei
- [Nemops-interest] Re: NEMOPS Workshop Report Michael Richardson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Kristian Larsson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Michael Richardson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Mahesh Jethanandani
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Michael Richardson
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Wes Hardaker
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Jürgen Schönwälder
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Dhruv Dhody
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Wes Hardaker
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Phil Shafer
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [External] [Nemops-workshop… Brad Peters
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Wes Hardaker
- [Nemops-interest] Re: [Nemops-workshop-attendees]… Benoit Claise
- [Nemops-interest] Re: NEMOPS Workshop Report Dhruv Dhody