Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source VRF of configured subscription?
"Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com> Thu, 07 December 2017 14:04 UTC
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From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
To: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source VRF of configured subscription?
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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2017 14:04:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source VRF of configured subscription?
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Based on the discussions completing, I believe there to be rough consensus on the configuration of a VRF for a configured subscription being via a leafref to network-instances with vrf-support being an if-feature. I.e.: +--ro source-vrf? -> /ni:network-instances/network-instance/name {supports-vrf}? Based on the planned time frame for network-instances.yang going to the IESG, I don't expect there to be any timing issues. But if it does turn out that there is a delay in this draft, this issue many need to be revisited. Eric > Hi Lou, > > > From: Lou Berger, November 21, 2017 9:37 AM > > > > Eric, > > > > See below > > > > On 11/21/2017 08:06 AM, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > > Hi Lou, > > > > > >> From: Lou Berger, November 21, 2017 7:16 AM > > >> > > >> Taking a step back: what is the purpose of having source-vrf in > > >> draft-ietf- netconf-subscribed-notifications? > > > > > > There are many uses for this, and not having it is already being > > > seen as a > > production problem in two separate telemetry environments: > > > (1) Being able to push telemetry traffic to one or more collection > > > VRFs > > which are not exposed in the global routing table. > > > > By "collection VRFs" you mean that the configured receivers are only > > reachable within the context of a VRF/NI, right? If not, I don't think I > follow. > > I this case, the SN configuration is still server-wide and not scoped > > per NI/VRF, right? > > Yes to both. Here we have a Telemetry Server gathering pretty much > anything about a set of network devices, but sending the telemetry traffic > out on a dedicated management VRF. > > > > (2) Being able to send routing and switching info relevant to a > > > specific customer VRFs on that customer's VRF. (I.e., provide > > > traffic counters to a collection IP address/domain for that VRF) > > > > Now we're getting somewhere. So you also have a use case where SNs > > are VRF-specific, right? Does config happen inside the context of the > > VRF or the core instance? Is there a separate logical management > > instance for the VRF? > > The configuration of the subscription is in the core instance. I have not yet > heard any requirements for configured subscriptions under a VRF instance. > > > > > > >> From the configuration side, the model seems to allow the > > >> configuration of an IP address for notification-message-origin > > >> that doesn't match any configured interface. Does this really make > sense? > > >> Why not just limit configuration to if:interface-ref? > > > > > > The person doing the configuration need have no understanding of the > > interfaces on the router. In addition, if the ni-name is the same > > across routers, the same ni-name can be used across the domain without > > knowledge of such device specifics. > > > > > > > So this sounds like the provider config policy, right? > > Depending on what you mean by that, I believe the answer is Yes. The > configuration policy is to send to an IP address on this VRF. And for > management simplification/security, we are not allowing a single > subscription to have independent receivers located in different VRFs. > > > >> Doing this eliminates the whole VRF discussion for this model (of > > >> course, I'm not saying the discussion won't happen in other > > >> contexts). > > >> > > >> What am I missing? > > > > > > This type of configuration is really aimed at a level higher than > > > someone > > who needs care about topology issues. > > > > What topology issues? > > Topology issues was short-hand for networking specifics. Let's say the > subscription is just for CPU Temperature, or for configured keys, or for > running processes, etc... In this case, there is no need to care about > interfaces, link status, adjacencies, etc. > > > > They just want something out of the network cloud. It is quite possible > > to configure the same subscription info to all devices in a domain > > without any per-device deviations at all. (I.e., same configured > > subscription-id, same filter, same VRF, same period, ...) > > > > So this case would configure vrf but not source IP, right? Is there a > > use case for source ip? > > Yes. At least one large data center customer has wanted to use source-IP to > allow differentiation of content on the WAN. This is presumably for QoS > purposes. Personally I would rather use other QoS constructs as there is > less change for miss-configuration. But signaling via source address is a > valid way to do network design which relies less on the capabilities of > specific vendors. > > > > > > >> Also if you do keep 'source-vrf' I think 'source-ni-name' is more > > >> consistent with draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model augmentations of > if:interface. > > > > > > "Ni-name" is more generic because it supports more types of > > > technologies > > than required at this time. As no customer is talking about things > beyond > > VRF, installing the more generic name would be an added layer of > > complexity. > > > > the augmentation to interfaces is called bind-ni-name, as long as you > > reference it or ni-name all is good. > > Excellent. Model now uses: > > type leafref { > path "/ni:network-instances/ni:network-instance/ni:name"; > } > > Eric > > > > Lou > > > > > > Eric > > > > > >> Lou > > >> > > >> On 11/21/2017 4:56 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I think that using a feature is better here. Defining a separate > > >>> module for just one leaf seems somewhat like overkill. > > >>> > > >>> I'm not sure that any compile time dependency on network > > >>> instances, and hence schema mount, is really an issue; the more > > >>> important one to avoid is the run time dependency on network > > >>> instances and schema mount, and both solutions achieve this. > > >>> > > >>> But I also agree with Juergen's comment that we should be > > >>> consistent, and the same approach should be used for other > > >>> protocols with conditional dependencies on network instances as > well. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Rob > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On 20/11/2017 19:54, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> *From:*Alexander Clemm, November 20, 2017 2:46 PM > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Eric, > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I agree that proliferation of modules is a concern, and certainly > > >>>> we would not want to run into combinatorial explosions. However, > > >>>> I don’t think this would be the case here - we would not need to > > >>>> augment VRF into yang-push also (or yang-push into VRF). > > >>>> Instead, both yang-push and vrf-for-notifications would be > > >>>> augmenting subscribed-notifications in parallel. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> <Eric> Yes, you are right, with this approach we would end with > > >>>> three models rather than four. But two models is already a lot. > > >>>> And we still set precedence that we end with a new VRF specific > > >>>> model every time any YANG model needs a VRF. > > >>>> > > >>>> Eric > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> --- Alex > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> *From:*Eric Voit (evoit) [mailto:evoit@cisco.com] > > >>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 11:39 AM > > >>>> *To:* Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com > > >>>> <mailto:alexander.clemm@huawei.com>>; Robert Wilton -X > (rwilton - > > >>>> ENSOFT LIMITED at Cisco) <rwilton@cisco.com > > >>>> <mailto:rwilton@cisco.com>>; netconf@ietf.org > > >>>> <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>; Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net > > >>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> > > >>>> *Subject:* RE: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source VRF > > >>>> of configured subscription? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I agree this is more elegant if we look just at > > >>>> subscribed-notifications. However extrapolating this means that > > >>>> we have a duplicate YANG module every time we have a VRF. And > > >>>> in our case when we augment yang-push, which model do we start > > from? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Eric > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> *From:*Alexander Clemm [mailto:alexander.clemm@huawei.com] > > >>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 2:27 PM > > >>>> *To:* Robert Wilton -X (rwilton - ENSOFT LIMITED at Cisco) > > >>>> <rwilton@cisco.com <mailto:rwilton@cisco.com>>; Eric Voit (evoit) > > >>>> <evoit@cisco.com <mailto:evoit@cisco.com>>; netconf@ietf.org > > >>>> <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>; Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net > > >>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> > > >>>> *Subject:* RE: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source VRF > > >>>> of configured subscription? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I am fine with that change, but wanted to bring up one additional > > >>>> option that was also briefly mentioned in the room which strikes > > >>>> me as perhaps a bit more elegant. That is the option to use > > >>>> augmentation. In that case, source-vrf and the import statement > > >>>> would simply be omitted. Instead, a new module would be created > > (e.g. > > >>>> ietf-vrf-for-subscribed-notifications), which contains the import > > >>>> statement and two augments statements to augment the source-vrf > > >>>> into the existing module. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> --- Alex > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> *From:*Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > > >>>> *Robert Wilton > > >>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 17, 2017 10:46 AM > > >>>> *To:* Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com > > >>>> <mailto:evoit@cisco.com>>; netconf@ietf.org > > >>>> <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>; Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net > > >>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> > > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source VRF > > >>>> of configured subscription? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On 17/11/2017 18:17, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> I would like to continue the discussion on this topic from our > > >>>> session. I think we came to agreement among the attendees. > > >>>> Hopefully this thread can confirm, or refine as need. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> First let’s look at Robert’s proposal below: > > >>>> > > >>>> There are lots of good elements in Robert’s proposal below, but > > >>>> it isn’t up to our WG to determine the proper structure of the > > >>>> network-instance-model. Authors of that model were in the > room, > > >>>> and are aware that YANG model developers from outside would > > >>>> welcome a partitioning which decouples any linkages to > > >>>> schema-mount when all that is needed is to identify a VRF by > name. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Looking at what we can control, discussed in the room was the > > >>>> following change to subscribed-notifications: > > >>>> > > >>>> 1. import “ietf-network-instance” > > >>>> > > >>>> 2. create if-feature “VRF”. > > >>>> > > >>>> 3. apply feature “VRF” to object “source-VRF” > > >>>> > > >>>> 4. Leafref to “source-VRF” to validate against the > > >>>> network-instance model’s > > >>>> /network-instances/network-instance/name. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> This is the current proposal. Are there are > > >>>> concerns/objections/refinements? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> No concerns, but perhaps one trivial refinement. > > >>>> > > >>>> I had mistakenly thought that a device would either support VRFs > > >>>> for all protocols or none, hence my suggestion to have a single > "VRF" > > >>>> feature, which would naturally be defined by the > > >>>> network-instances > > >> model. > > >>>> > > >>>> In the discussions that I had with Lou, some of them at the mic, > > >>>> some afterwards, Lou clarified that it quite plausible that VRFs > > >>>> may only be supported by some protocols on a device and not all, > > >>>> and hence the solution of having a "VRF" feature per protocol > > >>>> seems like the right solution. > > >>>> > > >>>> I think that I would call the feature "supports-vrf" rather than "vrf". > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> Rob > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Eric > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> *From:*Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > > >>>> *Eric Voit (evoit) > > >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:23 PM > > >>>> *To:* Robert Wilton -X (rwilton - ENSOFT LIMITED at Cisco) > > >>>> <rwilton@cisco.com> <mailto:rwilton@cisco.com>; > > netconf@ietf.org > > >>>> <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>; Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> > > >>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net> > > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source > VRF > > >>>> of configured subscription? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Agree it is a generic problem. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I would defer to Lou and the other authors of > > >>>> draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model as this would be a fairly significant > > >>>> change. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Eric > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> *From:*Robert Wilton, November 14, 2017 7:58 PM > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Eric, Lou, > > >>>> > > >>>> This seems to be a generic problem. > > >>>> > > >>>> Could the VRF leafref name dependency issue be solved with an > > >>>> if-feature statement?. > > >>>> > > >>>> I.e.could the network instance draft define a separate YANG > > >>>> module (with no dependencies) that defines a "VRF" feature. > > >>>> > > >>>> All the VRF references (ideally if all IETF YANG modules that may > > >>>> optionally depend on VRFs) could be leaf-refs to > > >>>> /network-instances/network-instance/name but predicated with > an > > >>>> if-feature "ni:vrf". > > >>>> > > >>>> Hence if a device doesn't support VRFs, then it doesn't implement > > >>>> the "vrf" feature, so it doesn't have to implement the full > > >>>> network instances module, or schema mount. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> Rob > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On 15/11/2017 08:45, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> In the WG session tomorrow, I am hoping to get “hum > feedback” > > >> on: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> draft-ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications > > >>>> > > >>>> https://github.com/netconf-wg/rfc5277bis/issues/5 > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> The two choices exposed during the two week review for how > to > > >>>> represent Source VRF of configured subscription were: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> (1) Leafref to “ietf-network-instance” > > >>>> /network-instances/network-instance/name > > >>>> > > >>>> · Creates dependency on schema mount for subscriptions. > > >>>> > > >>>> · Source VRF is an optional capability, but publishers > > >>>> that don’t care about VRFs must still import. (Note: could > > >>>> also augment the leafref in another model, but that adds > > >>>> another layer of complexity) > > >>>> > > >>>> · establishes model dependency to > > >>>> draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> (2) Use a string which would be populated with exact same > > >>>> name as would be in the leafref of (1) > > >>>> > > >>>> · Possible to name VRF which doesn’t exist > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> The current draft does (2). > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> > > >>>> Eric > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> > > >>>> Netconf mailing list > > >>>> > > >>>> Netconf@ietf.org <mailto:Netconf@ietf.org> > > >>>> > > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> . > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
- [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Source VR… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Lou Berger
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Lou Berger
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Lou Berger
- Re: [Netconf] Issue SN #5: How to represent Sourc… Eric Voit (evoit)