Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commits?

[Juergen Schoenwaelder <[e-mail]>]

For me, a confirmed commit is not complete if it can still timeout.

/js

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 04:01:59PM +0000, Jonathan Hansford wrote:
> I think the text you refer to on page 45 is open to interpretation. If a
> persistent confirmed commit has occurred then the changes have been
> committed (albeit in a confirmed commit), and the candidate and running
> configuration datastores are the same (unless and until the confirmed commit
> times out). The text depends on the definition of 'modified' (and how the
> server detects it) and 'committed'.
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" <[e-mail]>
> To: "Jonathan Hansford" <[e-mail]>
> Cc: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
> Sent: 14/01/2019 15:40:26
> Subject: Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commits?
> 
> > It seems the <candidate> datastore should not be allowed to be used as
> > long as a persistent confirmed commit is still ongoing. I leave it to
> > Martin to check whether this is said somewhere or an omission.
> > 
> > In general, an application can't assume that <candidate> contains
> > anything sensible. Hence, the proper way is to lock <candidate> and
> > then to make sure it contains something sensible, i.e., issuing a
> > discard_changes. And I think implementations should not allow an
> > application to obtain a lock on <candidate> while a commit is active.
> > The text on page 45 already says:
> > 
> >       A lock MUST NOT be granted if any of the following conditions is
> >       true:
> > 
> >       [...]
> > 
> >       *  The target configuration is <candidate>, it has already been
> >          modified, and these changes have not been committed or rolled
> >          back.
> > 
> > I think this covers the case of an ongoing but not completed
> > persistent confirmed commit, no?
> > 
> > /js
> > 
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 03:14:02PM +0000, Jonathan Hansford wrote:
> > >  If a persistent confirmed commit has not timed out, the running
> > >  configuration datastore will be the same as the candidate and
> > >  <discard-changes> won't change its contents. Any edit of candidate will be
> > >  based on the configuration resulting from the persistent confirmed commit.
> > > 
> > >  If the persistent confirmed commit has timed out, the running configuration
> > >  datastore will have reverted and <discard-changes> will change candidate.
> > >  Any edit of candidate in this case will be based on the configuration prior
> > >  to the start of the persistent confirmed commit.
> > > 
> > >  ------ Original Message ------
> > >  From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" <[e-mail]>
> > >  To: "Jonathan Hansford" <[e-mail]>
> > >  Cc: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
> > >  Sent: 14/01/2019 13:50:56
> > >  Subject: Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commits?
> > > 
> > >  > Hi,
> > >  >
> > >  > I have not yet understood where you see a problem. In general,
> > >  > <candidate/> contains arbitrary stuff and hence it is the client's
> > >  > responsibility to clear any arbitrary stuff found in <candidate/>
> > >  > after obtaining a lock. If does not really matter whether there has
> > >  > been a failed confirmed commit before or something else. I think the
> > >  > general safe pattern is:
> > >  >
> > >  > lock(candidate)
> > >  > discard_changes()
> > >  > push_whatever_needed()
> > >  > commit()
> > >  > unlock(candidate)
> > >  >
> > >  > If you do a confirmed commit and the session disappears, then the lock
> > >  > will disappear as well. But I do not think this creates a race
> > >  > condition, or I am just not yet seeing it. Perhaps it helps to write
> > >  > down the sequence of actions that leads to a race.
> > >  >
> > >  > /js
> > >  >
> > >  > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 12:50:38PM +0000, Jonathan Hansford wrote:
> > >  > >  Hi,
> > >  > >
> > >  > >  No one seems to be responding to my email and proposed erratum around
> > >  > >  the subject of confirmed commits (apart from Martin), but I would really
> > >  > >  like to know it I am missing something here. As far as I can tell,
> > >  > >  session termination during a confirmed commit leads to unpredictable
> > >  > >  behaviour and I would like to know whether anyone is using confirmed
> > >  > >  commits and how (if at all) they address the issues outlined below. My
> > >  > >  assumptions are that locks are used and :writable-running is not
> > >  > >  supported.
> > >  > >
> > >  > >  If the <candidate> and <running> configuration datastores are locked to
> > >  > >  prevent concurrent access, and a confirmed commit sequence is
> > >  > >  interrupted by the session terminating, the locks will automatically be
> > >  > >  released but the server MUST NOT accept a lock on <running> from any
> > >  > >  session if another session has an ongoing confirmed <commit>.
> > >  > >  Consequently, after session termination no client can acquire a <lock>
> > >  > >  on <running>, not even the one that initiated the confirmed <commit>,
> > >  > >  until after the confirmed <commit> has timed out. However, if the
> > >  > >  confirmed <commit> included the <persist> parameter, the original client
> > >  > >  could still issue a <commit> using the persist-id to complete the
> > >  > >  sequence prior to the timeout, even without a lock.
> > >  > >
> > >  > >  Of course, the problem now is the race for the new lock on <candidate>.
> > >  > >  If the original client is successful then all is good. But if a new
> > >  > >  client locks <candidate> before the timeout on the confirmed commit,
> > >  > >  whether or not they precede <lock> with <discard-changes>, <candidate>
> > >  > >  will be the same as <running> and the new client will pick up everything
> > >  > >  from the previous session. However, the client won’t be able to lock
> > >  > >  <running> until after the timeout, at which point <running> reverts but
> > >  > >  <candidate> still represents the previous session. If the client tries
> > >  > >  to lock <candidate> after the timeout, <running> will have reverted and
> > >  > >  the lock will only be granted after a <discard-changes> which will cause
> > >  > >  the <candidate> to revert. So, depending on when the lock on <candidate>
> > >  > >  occurs relative to the confirmed commit timeout, the client could be
> > >  > >  editing <candidate> in one of two states. Further, before the timeout on
> > >  > >  the confirmed commit, even if the new client has locked candidate, the
> > >  > >  original client could still issue a confirming commit (they don’t need a
> > >  > >  lock on <candidate> to do so) which would persistently commit any edits
> > >  > >  made by the new client. NOTE: it is not the use of the persist-id that
> > >  > >  introduces this behaviour; a new client would have the same problem even
> > >  > >  if a confirmed commit was not intended to persist beyond a session
> > >  > >  termination.
> > >  > >
> > >  > >  If the server also supports the :startup capability then, if the session
> > >  > >  termination was due to the server rebooting, the behaviour above would
> > >  > >  be further complicated by <running> now containing the configuration
> > >  > >  from the <startup> configuration datastore.
> > >  > >
> > >  > >  Am I right?
> > >  > >
> > >  > >  Jonathan
> > >  > >
> > >  > >  ---
> > >  > >  This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > >  > >  https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > >  >
> > >  > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  > >  Netconf mailing list
> > >  > >  [e-mail]
> > >  > >  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > --
> > >  > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > >  > Phone: [phone]         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > >  > Fax:   [phone]         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> > 
> > --
> > Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > Phone: [phone]         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> > Fax:   [phone]         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> 

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: [phone]         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   [phone]         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>