[netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-server groupings
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Tue, 17 September 2024 17:21 UTC
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2024 10:21:11 -0700
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To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
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CC: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-netconf-udp-client-server.authors@ietf.org
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Subject: [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-server groupings
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On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 4:12 PM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote: > Hi Alex, > > Please see inline below. > > K. > > > On Sep 16, 2024, at 4:42 AM, Alex Huang Feng <alex.huang-feng@insa-lyon.fr> > wrote: > > Dear Kent and Andy, > > Thank you for the provided feedback. > > Here a few comments about udp-groupings: > - When I meant user, I meant YANG module’s writer or designer, which can > be a IETF contributor or not. > - I agree with Andy that the default port on the generic grouping should > be removed. > > > The above sentence is hard to parse because 1) there’s more than one port > (local vs remote) and 2) there’s more than one grouping (i.e., client vs > server). > > Did you mean “I agree with Andy that the default *remote-port* in the > ietf-[tcp/udp]-client-grouping should be removed.”? This is what I agreed > to, and was able to get the RFC Editor to fix in RFC9643-to-be (i.e., the > tcp-client-server draft) > > > Personally, I would remove all of them, just for the fact that by having > them we are limiting the scope of usage of this generic grouping. > Maybe adding a section (or text) explaining that service models SHOULD > define (or prioritize) having a default port request within the YANG module > would be useful? See proposal below > Because I can see a user/designer wanting to implement a YANG module with > a “mandatory" port but unable to do so because of this “default” statement. > > > Here I think you are referring to having the client's and server’s > *local-port* to NOT be "default 0”. > > On one level, I agree with you. i.e., it can always be added by a > consumer, and it prevents the local-port from being “mandatory true". > > On the flip-side, every socket-level API I’ve used has always defaulted > the client’s local-port to “0” (meaning that it’s a wildcard, and the OS > gets to choose), and I’ve never seen a client not default its local-port to > 0. As for servers, one might think that the local-port should always > default to its well-known/assigned value. > > > Proposed text: > NEW: > The "remote-port" and "local-port" leaves are defined without any > "default" or "mandatory" statements in the "udp-client-grouping" > grouping. YANG models using this grouping SHOULD refine the grouping > with a "default" statement, usually with the port allocated by IANA, > or a "mandatory" statement, if the ports needs to be always present. > > Diff: > https://author-tools.ietf.org/diff?doc_1=draft-ietf-netconf-udp-client-server-03&url_2=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/netconf-wg/udp-client-server/master/draft-ietf-netconf-udp-client-server-04.txt > > Better this way? > > > I think that it’s fine. > > As written above, such can always be added by consuming modules. > > > Regarding udp-notif: > - Personally I am not against having a default IANA port for UDP-Notif. I > actually asked for it on the -13 iteration. > But from the feedback received on the ML [1] and the last IETF meeting > [2], the conclusion was that a port is not needed because an operator > already needs to configure the IP address where the collector is located. > I also see the same use case on the NC/RC Call home RFC. Even though a > default port is defined, the operator still needs to configure the IP > address of the NC client on the network management system... > > [1] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/gP5AApWL0Ha8uey9yIQvBlqOJ7A/ > [2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-120-netconf-202407251630/ > > > It’s true that it’s not a “first contact” situation, but many times > Operators want a port for firewalls, wireshark, etc. And if we’re lucky, > udp-notif will be very popular, easily justifying its allocation. > > The main purpose for YANG defaults is ease of use. If there are less things to configure then the device is easier to use. Without a default port then this parameter becomes mandatory to configure. > Looking at the numbers, I see a 50/50 split in proponents of the two > choices. This is far from WG consensus (not to mention weak participation). > > The minutes [2] show Rob suggesting asking a designated expert. This is > what we should do. > > Kent > > Andy
- [netconf] Default statements on udp-client-server… Alex Huang Feng
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Thomas.Graf
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… mohamed.boucadair
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Benoit Claise
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Qin Wu
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Andy Bierman
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Andy Bierman
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Alex Huang Feng
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Alex Huang Feng
- [netconf] UDP-noitf ports and other considerations Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Andy Bierman
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Thomas.Graf
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … Per Andersson
- [netconf] Re: UDP-noitf ports and other considera… Thomas.Graf
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … Andy Bierman
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … Andy Bierman
- [netconf] Re: UDP-noitf ports and other considera… Paolo Lucente
- [netconf] Re: Default statements on udp-client-se… Kent Watsen
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … Andy Bierman
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … Thomas.Graf
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Re: Default statements… Alex Huang Feng
- [netconf] Re: [netmod] Re: Default statements on … tom petch