Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commits?
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Mon, 14 January 2019 16:57 UTC
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References: <em106ef27b-c989-4e0b-b819-413fef852d53@morpheus> <20190114135056.t6sow7dbcyow6qcn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <em5dfb175c-7835-43eb-a767-38e270601427@morpheus> <20190114154026.tbevjbcdn3oh34uz@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <emd3042eae-a670-4eb3-8055-5f3379acc4d8@morpheus> <20190114162532.ptmzaxwghowda2o7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
In-Reply-To: <20190114162532.ptmzaxwghowda2o7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 08:57:06 -0800
Message-ID: <CABCOCHTTMPq54_HPYOLBGavX2Q1NqzHPXLv0BVofBaKSxd=TdQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Jonathan Hansford <jonathan@hansfords.net>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commits?
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On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 8:25 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > For me, a confirmed commit is not complete if it can still timeout. > > It is hard to imagine how a confirmed-commit could be considered complete if the server is still waiting for the confirming commit. > /js > Andy > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 04:01:59PM +0000, Jonathan Hansford wrote: > > I think the text you refer to on page 45 is open to interpretation. If a > > persistent confirmed commit has occurred then the changes have been > > committed (albeit in a confirmed commit), and the candidate and running > > configuration datastores are the same (unless and until the confirmed > commit > > times out). The text depends on the definition of 'modified' (and how the > > server detects it) and 'committed'. > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> > > To: "Jonathan Hansford" <jonathan@hansfords.net> > > Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org> > > Sent: 14/01/2019 15:40:26 > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commits? > > > > > It seems the <candidate> datastore should not be allowed to be used as > > > long as a persistent confirmed commit is still ongoing. I leave it to > > > Martin to check whether this is said somewhere or an omission. > > > > > > In general, an application can't assume that <candidate> contains > > > anything sensible. Hence, the proper way is to lock <candidate> and > > > then to make sure it contains something sensible, i.e., issuing a > > > discard_changes. And I think implementations should not allow an > > > application to obtain a lock on <candidate> while a commit is active. > > > The text on page 45 already says: > > > > > > A lock MUST NOT be granted if any of the following conditions is > > > true: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > * The target configuration is <candidate>, it has already been > > > modified, and these changes have not been committed or rolled > > > back. > > > > > > I think this covers the case of an ongoing but not completed > > > persistent confirmed commit, no? > > > > > > /js > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 03:14:02PM +0000, Jonathan Hansford wrote: > > > > If a persistent confirmed commit has not timed out, the running > > > > configuration datastore will be the same as the candidate and > > > > <discard-changes> won't change its contents. Any edit of candidate > will be > > > > based on the configuration resulting from the persistent confirmed > commit. > > > > > > > > If the persistent confirmed commit has timed out, the running > configuration > > > > datastore will have reverted and <discard-changes> will change > candidate. > > > > Any edit of candidate in this case will be based on the > configuration prior > > > > to the start of the persistent confirmed commit. > > > > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > > > From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > > > > > > To: "Jonathan Hansford" <jonathan@hansfords.net> > > > > Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org> > > > > Sent: 14/01/2019 13:50:56 > > > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commits? > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I have not yet understood where you see a problem. In general, > > > > > <candidate/> contains arbitrary stuff and hence it is the client's > > > > > responsibility to clear any arbitrary stuff found in <candidate/> > > > > > after obtaining a lock. If does not really matter whether there > has > > > > > been a failed confirmed commit before or something else. I think > the > > > > > general safe pattern is: > > > > > > > > > > lock(candidate) > > > > > discard_changes() > > > > > push_whatever_needed() > > > > > commit() > > > > > unlock(candidate) > > > > > > > > > > If you do a confirmed commit and the session disappears, then the > lock > > > > > will disappear as well. But I do not think this creates a race > > > > > condition, or I am just not yet seeing it. Perhaps it helps to > write > > > > > down the sequence of actions that leads to a race. > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 12:50:38PM +0000, Jonathan Hansford wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > No one seems to be responding to my email and proposed erratum > around > > > > > > the subject of confirmed commits (apart from Martin), but I > would really > > > > > > like to know it I am missing something here. As far as I can > tell, > > > > > > session termination during a confirmed commit leads to > unpredictable > > > > > > behaviour and I would like to know whether anyone is using > confirmed > > > > > > commits and how (if at all) they address the issues outlined > below. My > > > > > > assumptions are that locks are used and :writable-running is > not > > > > > > supported. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the <candidate> and <running> configuration datastores are > locked to > > > > > > prevent concurrent access, and a confirmed commit sequence is > > > > > > interrupted by the session terminating, the locks will > automatically be > > > > > > released but the server MUST NOT accept a lock on <running> > from any > > > > > > session if another session has an ongoing confirmed <commit>. > > > > > > Consequently, after session termination no client can acquire > a <lock> > > > > > > on <running>, not even the one that initiated the confirmed > <commit>, > > > > > > until after the confirmed <commit> has timed out. However, if > the > > > > > > confirmed <commit> included the <persist> parameter, the > original client > > > > > > could still issue a <commit> using the persist-id to complete > the > > > > > > sequence prior to the timeout, even without a lock. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, the problem now is the race for the new lock on > <candidate>. > > > > > > If the original client is successful then all is good. But if > a new > > > > > > client locks <candidate> before the timeout on the confirmed > commit, > > > > > > whether or not they precede <lock> with <discard-changes>, > <candidate> > > > > > > will be the same as <running> and the new client will pick up > everything > > > > > > from the previous session. However, the client won’t be able > to lock > > > > > > <running> until after the timeout, at which point <running> > reverts but > > > > > > <candidate> still represents the previous session. If the > client tries > > > > > > to lock <candidate> after the timeout, <running> will have > reverted and > > > > > > the lock will only be granted after a <discard-changes> which > will cause > > > > > > the <candidate> to revert. So, depending on when the lock on > <candidate> > > > > > > occurs relative to the confirmed commit timeout, the client > could be > > > > > > editing <candidate> in one of two states. Further, before the > timeout on > > > > > > the confirmed commit, even if the new client has locked > candidate, the > > > > > > original client could still issue a confirming commit (they > don’t need a > > > > > > lock on <candidate> to do so) which would persistently commit > any edits > > > > > > made by the new client. NOTE: it is not the use of the > persist-id that > > > > > > introduces this behaviour; a new client would have the same > problem even > > > > > > if a confirmed commit was not intended to persist beyond a > session > > > > > > termination. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the server also supports the :startup capability then, if > the session > > > > > > termination was due to the server rebooting, the behaviour > above would > > > > > > be further complicated by <running> now containing the > configuration > > > > > > from the <startup> configuration datastore. > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. > > > > > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | > Germany > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 < > https://www.jacobs-university.de/> > > > > > > -- > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <https://www.jacobs-university.de/> > > > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <https://www.jacobs-university.de/> > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >
- [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed commi… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… jonathan
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] Is there a problem with confirmed c… Jonathan Hansford