Re: [Netconf] Anyone want just Configured Subscriptions?

Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> Sat, 07 July 2018 23:50 UTC

Return-Path: <kwatsen@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6816E130DFB for <netconf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 16:50:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5dhdPDDcp6Ci for <netconf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 16:50:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DF9012777C for <netconf@ietf.org>; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 16:50:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108158.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w67NinsQ004217; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 16:50:36 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=1zJMFlXH8eJve8AxrNB14/NQvJLoc+IG1eJA6/4HiUU=; b=SolDNQkQaMIMOJvo4cxaFC1Sl7faaa+RmOik7xMmOOPj+ctVSh8NjNqR+QXiDBKldQr7 pVOEuMPcj+t5s4fpn5zsANYmp26eO9X4kmDP+WN7qn+M+2XKrbLXjuGSX2SibRh8tjUQ 7bsaPVXnrCN2D22ko0jrPTYZ6zx+1cVI1LpWGG32P81GD7MLIJOcDwfYiMxdu4x6PqSn LwYVYdqk5EqhdjzBglOkhqSVnF/ASMu4Ho/IDTvumSdHvxHV7g+yNsMstGCi16ubbUNF ezENEdJbZ8Muxv1SqY7Hr2hV4u64n3sDoxqdW7zbYkP9RNBeDUm7ueI/HDC0pA617+x5 qA==
Received: from nam04-bn3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam04lp0118.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.118]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2k2veq8r0c-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 07 Jul 2018 16:50:36 -0700
Received: from BYAPR05MB4230.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.135.200.153) by BYAPR05MB4309.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.135.202.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.930.17; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 23:50:32 +0000
Received: from BYAPR05MB4230.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::959d:9fbe:90e4:3cc]) by BYAPR05MB4230.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::959d:9fbe:90e4:3cc%4]) with mapi id 15.20.0952.008; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 23:50:32 +0000
From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
CC: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Anyone want just Configured Subscriptions?
Thread-Index: AQHUFdzgMgOM7HOBqEO/3ZzYZXUeNKSDugSAgAAU0gCAAASKgIAAWGoA
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2018 23:50:31 +0000
Message-ID: <5537D1FA-ADBE-4432-8FB7-8B2CAD5E9C9F@juniper.net>
References: <b7c65965cf3b43e3b898c5c2f9519573@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <CABCOCHTfkNtBoXU7XMk3yxif1DXBH5m4QVP0YF1yPhHYJu0fKQ@mail.gmail.com> <895bc6a027484796a0aa0dde4c144f8b@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20180707.122539.1914166298230280820.mbj@tail-f.com> <CABCOCHRXPZsA-_0_w_L9Z5o0ZH5U_ntx0A-ZQHzFOpa+P4actQ@mail.gmail.com> <ca85f986fdb449b1bcadb757b85941be@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <CABCOCHSWrtDqm+VWzQfVs+nVfxa4rSbA5==cw7ojLm2TY-_fdA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABCOCHSWrtDqm+VWzQfVs+nVfxa4rSbA5==cw7ojLm2TY-_fdA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309
x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BYAPR05MB4309; 7:+6gS/BawWsE118BrpvxHdpUYpm7DxG1wJTwvUFHtQwNWJaMF4ikSzXczC4bEfk7wS9w0HsiAKWfcuBbkNe6i5nv+7cBoDfq0xy9jm8fGjwfxm0153064GyJofgcSIQwuC+lNBahg72c6am5oT8djnPN1JjFliFJLP7e6jvnX2J92EHMrfLr4uozViNvC7iiinkKETBEXKDs9knj9y5RDitSVk9nz5+9mMNncfvIyI8RUijktvScbH7dJ1uBtA9Dw
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d4f38409-3a96-4d19-f7f7-08d5e4646d1f
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989117)(48565401081)(5600053)(711020)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR05MB4309;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR05MB4309:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR05MB430914B8A94551901D2508D2A5460@BYAPR05MB4309.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(28532068793085)(158342451672863)(192374486261705)(21748063052155);
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(10201501046)(3231311)(944501410)(52105095)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123562045)(20161123560045)(20161123564045)(20161123558120)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(6072148)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:BYAPR05MB4309; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BYAPR05MB4309;
x-forefront-prvs: 0726B2D7A6
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(979002)(346002)(376002)(136003)(396003)(39860400002)(366004)(189003)(199004)(8936002)(2906002)(25786009)(14454004)(99286004)(66066001)(105586002)(106356001)(7736002)(81166006)(86362001)(33656002)(53936002)(966005)(6246003)(316002)(478600001)(36756003)(81156014)(2900100001)(110136005)(8676002)(58126008)(93886005)(6116002)(6512007)(4326008)(186003)(486006)(14444005)(82746002)(476003)(102836004)(2616005)(68736007)(97736004)(76176011)(446003)(11346002)(6486002)(6506007)(26005)(54896002)(6306002)(5250100002)(6436002)(256004)(229853002)(5660300001)(83716003)(3846002)(969003)(989001)(999001)(1009001)(1019001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR05MB4309; H:BYAPR05MB4230.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: FsKDJgCQ5mA3aeEjisptc3X+B1LlixaZqSkSa6hXKJ2v1D23tRa02s8dpYooHpvqXzn4VPf7mQR4LL2JTfqOmzwuTrCJiZuxN2s0CfCmDHjycp0Z8fi/KIqHDpf2me0ATWc68w/0OoearSM77I75eI47QCEeOwAFjuc6+oVTj0aHWUvS6caxkGw0mUVASD1MP53Rk3Ds+HFDqtfM5Uk+EIAtTNQNTVfEiXli0SmPgLsRrN4lmfPDaVWrmPrfRGWHBgQFXngZsIPjfZI1lic/iE4XAWnpdT0R+wJ6m3mC4Yk7oBXrUnMcc6BJ9cpI/lKB/JXuLOTd1iFFNHPjzOwss1cn4FXjp5zdvj5+gEfIrgY=
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5537D1FAADBE44328FB78B2CAD5E9C9Fjunipernet_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d4f38409-3a96-4d19-f7f7-08d5e4646d1f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jul 2018 23:50:32.0006 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB4309
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-07-07_07:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807070285
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/INOtFXV_GT0GRTQJP_7JxR2FJ0U>
Subject: Re: [Netconf] Anyone want just Configured Subscriptions?
X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26
Precedence: list
List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list <netconf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netconf>, <mailto:netconf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netconf/>
List-Post: <mailto:netconf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netconf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf>, <mailto:netconf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2018 23:50:41 -0000


> IMO there needs to be at least 1 complete standard solution that servers must support.
> I would prefer that configured subscriptions be held back until a fully-baked standard
> solution is ready.

This option will be discussed in Montreal.  If the WG agrees, then the below can be
discussed later.


> I don't think this fits the intent of CallHome.

RFC 8071 is very clear (see C8 and S6), the NC or RC protocol *starts*.  Also, from
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netconf/QS14f-6w-BzCD9280uuO06CZK6c, I
wrote:

 That said, I have to say that I'm not entirely sure if I understand if what is
  planned is legal.  For instance, in a normal NETCONF call-home situation, the
 NETCONF session begins with both sides sending <hello> messages and then
  the server waiting for the client to send RPCs, which might include a 5277
  <create-subscription>, after which the <notifications> begin to flow.  Is this
  the same here, or are you expecting the <notification> messages to start flowing
  immediately?


> IMO a new protocol is needed that is dedicated to the binary transport
> of notification subscription data.

Agreed, and I'd like that protocol to be:
  1) mandatory to implement, if the "configured" feature is enabled.
  2) run over UDP, so events can go out line cards directly.
  3) be optionally encrypted, as there are scenarios where it's safe to send unencrypted
      events to a receiver within a security perimeter, which can relay the events over an
      encrypted connection to a remote system, so as to offload the burden from the NE
      equipment to a cheaper general purpose computer.

FWIW, COAP is on top of UDP, and its use of DTLS is optional, so it seems like a good
match, though I don't know if it also needs a client-initiated RPC to start the flow of logs.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever compared COAP to gRPC?


Kent // contributor