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[184.162.66.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7acde53c021sm169849885a.28.2024.09.25.05.49.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Sep 2024 05:49:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Blanchet Message-Id: <023FAAE1-9B4B-4364-917F-70985EAE7D1A@viagenie.ca> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C5BE1C91-17ED-4097-9EED-D8A94DD68BEE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3818.100.11.1.3\)) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 08:49:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: Med Boucadair References: <172722605655.189.7998165814409208575@dt-datatracker-6c75f7dfff-hrjh6> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3818.100.11.1.3) Message-ID-Hash: S732FIYHPRW3BCADG5NRF5HADE7Z45JQ X-Message-ID-Hash: S732FIYHPRW3BCADG5NRF5HADE7Z45JQ X-MailFrom: marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-netconf.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc4 Precedence: list Subject: =?utf-8?q?=5Bnetconf=5D_Re=3A_I-D_Action=3A_draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-00?= =?utf-8?q?=2Etxt?= List-Id: NETCONF WG list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --Apple-Mail=_C5BE1C91-17ED-4097-9EED-D8A94DD68BEE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Le 25 sept. 2024 =C3=A0 08:37, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a =C3=A9crit= : >=20 > Hi authors, all, >=20 > Now that the document is adopted as a WG item, I think that some = serious clean-up is needed to better focus on the key spec :-) Sure. We decided to _not_ make any change to the draft from individual = to wg -00 so that it will be easier to trace for the wg. And we already = have comments from during the adoption call that are being processed.=20 The repo is https://github.com/netconf-wg/netconf-over-quic Feel free to create issues or PR. >=20 > I understand that given that the doc was out there since 2019, it = cumulates text that might not valid (stale) to motivate the need for a = new NETCONF transport. However, parts of that text is questionable and = will be a distraction. This actually starts with the abstract with = mentions such as TCP or statements such as "QUIC provides useful = semantics for Network management" or "difficult environments". = Likewise, no need to mention in the introduction the constrained = environments as there are other more suitable solutions such as CoAP, = coreconf, etc. Also, text such as the following cites RFCs that are = historic since a while: >=20 > CURRENT: > The NETCONF protocol is not bound to any particular transport > protocol, but allows a mapping to define how it can be implemented > over any specific protocol. At present, some secure transport > protocols are defined to carry NETCONF: Secure SHell(SSH)[RFC6242], > Transport Layer Security(TLS)[RFC7589], Simple Object Access > Protocol(SOAP)[RFC4743] and Blocks Extensible Exchange > Protocol(BEEP)[RFC4744]. yes. >=20 > I would also avoid repeating parts of specs that are already in the = base NETCONF and QUIC. This is an interesting debate. I also had thought about that and = provided some comments to that effect when I was invited to be co-author = lately. We did remove some stuff, but I was not sure how much we shall, = since this is an example of a topic crossing two protocols. How much = info one need to know for the other. Will look into it. > For example, there is no need to repeat all the same details about the = Stream ID types, etc.=20 >=20 > Although I expect the mapping to be less complex, I encourage the = authors to look into RFC 9250 and leverage it as much as appropriate. Ok >=20 > Hope this helps. Yes, thanks. If you like to fill these as issues on the repo, it would be easier to = track (for you and the wg). I can do it too but might not be as good as = the commenter. Marc. >=20 > Cheers, > Med >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org >> Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 25 septembre 2024 03:01 >> =C3=80 : i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Cc : netconf@ietf.org >> Objet : I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-00.txt >>=20 >>=20 >> Internet-Draft draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-00.txt is now >> available. It is a work item of the Network Configuration >> (NETCONF) WG of the IETF. >>=20 >> Title: NETCONF over QUIC >> Authors: Jinyou Dai >> Shaohua Yu >> Weiqiang Cheng >> Marc Blanchet >> Per Andersson >> Name: draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-00.txt >> Pages: 10 >> Dates: 2024-09-24 >>=20 >> Abstract: >>=20 >> The Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) provides >> mechanisms to >> install, manipulate, and delete the configuration of network >> devices. >> NETCONF can be carried over various transports such as TCP, >> SSH or >> else. QUIC provides useful semantics for Network management >> and >> NETCONF in particular as a single connection can carry >> multiple >> requests over streams, enabling much better efficiency and >> performance for both peers. QUIC provides shorter handshake >> and >> includes TLS. QUIC is also more adaptable to more difficult >> environments such as those with long delays. This document >> describes >> how to use NETCONF over the QUIC transport protocol, named >> NETCONFoQUIC. >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is: >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2 >> Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-netconf-over- >> quic%2F&data=3D05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C772ad3751 >> 5874f6c462c08dcdcfdaec4%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C >> 0%7C638628229336810622%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD >> AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sda >> ta=3D8WD7bI1kE6HVXl2aWoRBxVxPtTccNpC7iuOU7TOrBRI%3D&reserved=3D0 >>=20 >> There is also an HTML version available at: >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2 >> Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-ietf-netconf-over-quic- >> 00.html&data=3D05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C772ad3751 >> 5874f6c462c08dcdcfdaec4%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C >> 0%7C638628229336832488%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD >> AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sda >> ta=3DbrX2qWBCKnLl8TVaizHDs6DIYo102OY4J5mMG7wXGDI%3D&reserved=3D0 >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at: >> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list -- i-d-announce@ietf.org To unsubscribe >> send an email to i-d-announce-leave@ietf.org > = __________________________________________________________________________= __________________________________ > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations = confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les = messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, = deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or = privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and = delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list -- netconf@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to netconf-leave@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_C5BE1C91-17ED-4097-9EED-D8A94DD68BEE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Le 25 sept. = 2024 =C3=A0 08:37, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a =C3=A9crit :

Hi authors, = all,

Now that the document is adopted as a WG item, I think that = some serious clean-up is needed to better focus on the key spec = :-)

Sure. We decided to = _not_ make any change to the draft from individual to wg -00 so that it = will be easier to trace for the wg. And we already have comments from = during the adoption call that are being = processed. 


Feel free to = create issues or PR.


I understand that given that the doc was out = there since 2019, it cumulates text that might not valid (stale) to = motivate the need for a new NETCONF transport. However, parts of that = text is questionable and will be a distraction. This actually starts = with the abstract with mentions such as TCP or statements such as "QUIC = provides useful semantics for Network management" or "difficult =  environments". Likewise, no need to mention in the introduction = the constrained environments as there are other more suitable solutions = such as CoAP, coreconf, etc. Also, text such as the following cites RFCs = that are historic since a while:

CURRENT:
  The = NETCONF protocol is not bound to any particular transport
=   protocol, but allows a mapping to define how it can be = implemented
  over any specific protocol.  At = present, some secure transport
  protocols are defined to = carry NETCONF: Secure SHell(SSH)[RFC6242],
  Transport = Layer Security(TLS)[RFC7589], Simple Object Access
=   Protocol(SOAP)[RFC4743] and Blocks Extensible Exchange
=   Protocol(BEEP)[RFC4744].

=
yes.


I would = also avoid repeating parts of specs that are already in the base NETCONF = and QUIC.

This is an = interesting debate. I also had thought about that and provided some = comments to that effect when I was invited to be co-author lately. We = did remove some stuff, but I was not sure how much we shall, since this = is an example of a topic crossing two protocols. How much info one need = to know for the other. Will look into = it.

For = example, there is no need to repeat all the same details about the = Stream ID types, etc.

Although I expect the mapping to be less = complex, I encourage the authors to look into RFC 9250 and leverage it = as much as = appropriate.

Ok

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">

Hope this = helps.

Yes, = thanks.

If you like to fill these as issues on = the repo, it would be easier to track (for you and the wg). I can do it = too but might not be as good as the = commenter.

Marc.


Cheers,
Med

-----Message d'origine-----
De : = internet-drafts@ietf.org = <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 25 = septembre 2024 03:01
=C3=80 : i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc : = netconf@ietf.org
Objet : I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-00.txt


Internet-Draft = draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-00.txt is now
available. It is a work = item of the Network Configuration
(NETCONF) WG of the IETF.

=   Title:   NETCONF over QUIC
=   Authors: Jinyou Dai
=            Shaohua = Yu
=            Weiqiang= Cheng
=            Marc = Blanchet
=            Per = Andersson
  Name: =    draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-00.txt
=   Pages:   10
  Dates: =   2024-09-24

Abstract:

  The Network = Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) provides
mechanisms to
=   install, manipulate, and delete the configuration of = network
devices.
  NETCONF can be carried over various = transports such as TCP,
SSH or
  else.  QUIC = provides useful semantics for Network management
and
=   NETCONF in particular as a single connection can = carry
multiple
  requests over streams, enabling much = better efficiency and
  performance for both peers. =  QUIC provides shorter handshake
and
  includes = TLS.  QUIC is also more adaptable to more difficult
=   environments such as those with long delays.  This = document
describes
  how to use NETCONF over the QUIC = transport protocol, named
  NETCONFoQUIC.

The IETF = datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft = is:
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-netconf-over-
quic%2F&= data=3D05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C772ad3751
5874f6c462c= 08dcdcfdaec4%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C
0%7C638628229336= 810622%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
AiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ= BTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sda
ta=3D8WD7bI1kE6HVXl2aW= oRBxVxPtTccNpC7iuOU7TOrBRI%3D&reserved=3D0

There is also an = HTML version available = at:
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-ietf-netconf-over-quic-
00.htm= l&data=3D05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C772ad3751
5874f= 6c462c08dcdcfdaec4%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C
0%7C638628= 229336832488%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMD
AiLCJQIjoiV2luM= zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sda
ta=3DbrX2qWBCKnL= l8TVaizHDs6DIYo102OY4J5mMG7wXGDI%3D&reserved=3D0

Internet-Draft= s are also available by rsync = at:
rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts


________________________= _______________________
I-D-Announce mailing list -- = i-d-announce@ietf.org To unsubscribe
send an email to = i-d-announce-leave@ietf.org
______________________________= __________________________________________________________________________= ____
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des = informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas = etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu = ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le = detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant = susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce = message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message = and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information = that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or = copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in = error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its = attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for = messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank = you.

_______________________________________________
netconf = mailing list -- netconf@ietf.org
To unsubscribe send an email to = netconf-leave@ietf.org

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