Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-netconf-http-client-server-04
tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> Fri, 15 November 2019 12:48 UTC
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From: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
CC: "bill.wu@huawei.com" <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "rwilton@cisco.com" <rwilton@cisco.com>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-netconf-http-client-server-04
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 12:48:11 +0000
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-netconf-http-client-server-04
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---- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Watsen" <kent+ietf@watsen.net> To: "Martin Bjorklund" <mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: <bill.wu@huawei.com>; <ietfc@btconnect.com>; <rwilton@cisco.com>; <httpbis-chairs@ietf.org>; <netconf@ietf.org> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 1:08 PM Hi Martin, > Personally I don't care; just pointing out a discussion that may be > relevant. Ack. Let's focus on the module names, the draft name will fall out from that discussion. <tp> Kent I see this thread conflating names with names and names. Module name I see as the most important; it is permanent, will be seen by many people in many contexts and so must be an accurate reflection of the contents. If, during the development of the I-D, the contents change, then change the name! Yes, those with early implementations will have to change but that is always the price of implementing an I-D RFC Title also matters; it is permanent, widely seen in many contexts and should tell people whether or not to go further, to read the abstract. But the name of the I-D is quite different. It vanishes when the RFC appears and ceases to be of any relevance but must change from -<author>- to -ietf- when an I-D is adopted. Otherwise it is just a string, an identifier and subject to the requirements of an identifier - like, stabillity. So any other change than the one I just mentioned I think a bad idea, which is what I said on OPSAWG; there the title is good, no need to change, the I-D name is just an identifier, leave it alone, do not try to give it semantic significance. Tom Petch > I think it is the name "ietf-http-server" that seems to indicate that > this a module that can be used to configure any HTTP server. (See > below!) It's more like a possible basis to configure any HTTP server, which to me still seems like the right thing to do, until someone can provide a concrete technical reason why it cannot be so. > I wonder if the names should be "ietf-http-server-groupings" instead? Hmmm, this is an interesting idea... > (and same for tcp / ssh / tls, but not netconf / restconf). I see why you might say this, but the netconf/restconf drafts also define groupings, which are (IMO) more important than the containers, which we added under questionable conditions (i.e., the "client" containers make almost no sense, and the "server" containers have limited use, especially without the ability to augment/refine things when "implemented"). > We > already have some "-types" modules. Or even "ietf-http-server-types", > if by "type" we mean "typedef and/or grouping". ...and identities and features (and maybe something else I'm not thinking about just now). > This could also be a way to make the name less problematic. It makes > it more obvious that these modules provide building blocks, rather > than a complete solution. I truly appreciate the intention behind this idea and love the idea of sticking with an undiluted "http", but I question if putting "grouping" into the module name is ideal, perhaps "base" or "basis" would be better? Even for the NC/RC modules, they are merely a base/basis for higher-level business logic. [note: I also thought about "params", but the (IMO useless) containers in the NC/RC modules don't lend themselves well to being called "params"] To help visualize these options: ietf-http-server-base ietf-http-server-basis ietf-http-server-params ietf-restconf-server-base ietf-restconf-server-basis ietf-restconf-server-params To be clear, I'm not yet agreeing to or promoting this approach yet, though it seems promising. Kent // contributor
- [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-netconf… Mahesh Jethanandani
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Mahesh Jethanandani
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Mahesh Jethanandani
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Schönwälder
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Schönwälder
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… tom petch
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Qin Wu
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Schönwälder
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… tom petch
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netconf] Adoption call for draft-kwatsen-net… Mahesh Jethanandani