Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice?
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Thu, 02 August 2018 15:25 UTC
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 08:25:14 -0700
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To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
Cc: Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com>, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>, "evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" <evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice?
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On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:11 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote: > > I am sympathetic to Eric's and Einar's observation that a given > subscription, having multiple receivers, is likely to have all the > receivers using the same transport and encoding. > > The thought behind this is that, assuming there are multiple distinct > applications, each application will selfishly create its own subscription; > it will not try to see if there is another existing subscription that > matches its needs. > > Thus, in effect, the *only* purpose for there being a *list* of receivers > is for enabling high availability, which I think is okay. I wish the text > was clearer about this objective. > > What I object to is the way that this restriction is currently implemented > using identities, which requires the "notif" models to do something right. > Better would be a "must" expression that says the count of the descendants > is exactly one. Can you do that? > Is there a way to make multiple receivers per subscription optional-to-implement (another YANG feature?) Anyone implementing configured subscriptions is forced to support multiple receivers. Does that mean it is harmful to the Internet if only 1 receiver per subscription is allowed? I was told this feature is required because it is too much of a burden on the client to create a separate subscription for each receiver. IMO this is nonsense, but I won't implement configured subscriptions anyway. > Kent // contributor > > Andy > ===== original message ===== > > I am wondering why we are reopening the issue of multiple > encodings/transports per receiver vs per subscription? > > Having single transport / encoding per subscription is a simpler design > (feedback from implementors; simplifies dealing with any error conditions > due to encoding that would affect one receiver but not others in the same > subscription; Einar has explained this in the past) and, while I am in > general a fan of general design, there does not seem to be business > requirements and scenarios that demand this - and even if there were, this > would constitute merely an optimization (since if you have different > receivers who want different encodings/tranport, you can always simply > create another subscription). > > If in the future there is really desire to add this as an additional > feature, we can put this into a -bis version. (Adding stuff will be easier > than taking things away.) Let's just be done. > > --- Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > > Bjorklund > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM > > To: kwatsen@juniper.net > > Cc: evoit=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory choice? > > > > Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote: > > > [removing yang-doctors list, and updating subject line accordingly] > > > > > > > > > >> > Why do all receivers of a subscription have to use the same > > transport? > > > >> > > > >> This was something that Martin and Eric worked out before we did > > > >> the first Last Call. Eric doesn't seem to know the particular > > > >> reason, other than Martin seems to think it’s easier. > > > > > > > > No; I personally also prefer a design where each receiver has its > > > > own transport + encoding. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > The original model had a common "encoding" for all receivers, and > > > > then a receiver-specific transport - I think this is even worse, > > > > > > Agreed. > > > > > > > > > > and suggested to have transport + encoding defined together > > > > preferrably receiver-specifc or else common for all receivers. > > > > > > > > If the WG now believes that the transport + encoding should be done > > > > per receiver, this should be fairly easy to change. > > > > > > I also prefer per receiver, and I think that doing so will simplify > > > the model, as neither the mandatory "transport" nor the [not > > > mandatory?] "encoding" leaves have to be specified. > > > > > > In particular, my thoughts are that the "notif" model should provide > > > for the encoding selection, if needed (it's not needed for NETCONF, or > > > COAP I imagine). > > > > I agree. I think this would be a cleaner design. > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > In the case of RESTCONF, we could update the ietf-restconf-client and > > > ietf-restconf-server models to include an "encodings" leaf-list, to > > > configure the RESTCONF server which encodings it should support. We > > > likely need to do something similar to configure which HTTP versions > > > should be supported. Now, in a general RC server, the server could > > > support both but, if the restconf-notif draft has its own list of > > > restconf-servers (i.e., it uses the "restconf-server-grouping" itself, > > > see my July 19 email for a YANG example), then a constraint could be > > > added limiting the number "supported" to just one. Thus, when the RC > > > server reboots, and connects to the receiver and *automatically* (no > > > client RPC) starts pushing notifications, it can know what encoding to > > > use. > > > > > > I'm still unsure if its legal for an RC server to automatically push > > > notifications without a client-initiated RPC of any sort, and I'm also > > > uncertain if supporting *configured* subscriptions for NC or RC is > > > needed (see my message July 20 email). So, some of this may work > > > itself out as we progress. > > > > > > I know that we're not defining the *configured* notif drafts in this > > > first effort, the we are publishing the SN draft with a configuration > > > model, my only concern now is configuration model presented in the SN > > > draft. > > > > > > > > > Kent // contributor > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netconf&d=DwIGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m= > Mh0UuTFvh9TpmFzzMMON07C4WQIwjRJLM-OT62OJZe4&s=PPy3uCUVVJa- > GwAfmUexA9cX31IWHhlMHlAGMcPdnyY&e= > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Andy Bierman
- [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandatory c… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Robert Wilton
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Henk Birkholz
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Andy Bierman
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] YANG Doctor question: empty mandato… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… tom petch
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Kent Watsen
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] YANG Doctor question… Martin Bjorklund