Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums

tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> Fri, 07 August 2020 11:12 UTC

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From: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: 'Juergen Schoenwaelder' <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:12:38 +0000
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Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
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From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Sent: 07 August 2020 12:02

Yes to everything you say, Juergen.

And, indeed, this is often what an adoption poll is intended to measure.

Just saying that (per 7221) you can know these things without a poll, and (perhaps) your test of adoption suitability will collect exactly this information so that a further poll will not be necessary.

<tp>
My left field view is to oppose adoption regardless.  The WG has some nine I-D comprising over 400pp dating in some cases back four years.  I think that it the WG has any energy then at least some of these need to get to the IESG before the WG considers more work.  Indeed I know of an AD who once changed the WG charter to stop any more work being taken on until the existing work had progressed.

Tom Petch

Best,
Adrian (who hopes that WG participants will respond carefully to the seven separate requests for info)

-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
Sent: 07 August 2020 10:17
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: 'Kent Watsen' <kent+ietf@watsen.net>et>; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums

Adrian,

technical discussion of the drafts on the mailing list would help more
than having process meta-discussions. It is good to know who (other
than the authors) is volunteering to substantially review the drafts,
is willing to contribute to the discussions of any issues, and is
planning to implement the technology defined in the drafts as this
will likely help the chairs to make a decision.

/js

On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 09:59:15AM +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi chairs,
>
> I think this is an interesting approach to determining whether there is interest in a number of drafts at the same time, and I agree with you that a hum at a working group meeting means nothing without confirming the opinion on the mailing list.
>
> But I'm worried that you may be introducing yet another piece of process into how we process documents.
>
> The adoption poll, itself, is not necessary if it is obvious to the chairs that a draft is within charter and has support [RFC7221]. But in addition to the poll, we also have somehow introduced an IPR poll at adoption time (while I can see the merits of being explicit about IPR, and we have seen one or two people attempt to wriggle out of their responsibilities, it seems unnecessary to serialize the two calls). Now you appear to be introducing an additional step to test "adoption suitability".
>
> Can I urge you (strongly? :-) to consider the responses to you adoption suitability tests and, if they are solid, to move straight to adoption without making the working group go though a prolonged series of polls. We would, I think, prefer to get on with the work!
>
> Best,
> Adrian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: netconf <netconf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen
> Sent: 05 August 2020 23:13
> To: netconf@ietf.org
> Subject: [netconf] Regarding 108 adoption hums
>
>
> NETCONF WG,
>
>
> The Chairs & AD discussed the results of the various adoption hums conducted during the 108 meeting.  There is a sense that the results didn’t adequately determine if the drafts should be adopted.  In particular, it wasn’t clear if the hums reflected a general desire to solve the problem or support for the particular draft.
>
> As such, we’ve decided to send subsequent emails for each draft, or set of drafts if appropriate, to solicit input on following questions:
>
>     1) is the problem important for the NETCONF WG to solve?
>     2) is the draft a suitable basis for the work?
>
>
> NETCONF Chairs
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> netconf mailing list
> netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
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--
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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