Re: [netext] Consensus call: Adopt I-D draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03 as Netext WG doc?

Raj,
At this point I have no trust whatsoever that the issues that were raised will be considered at all. They have not been so far, so I expect the same will happen again. Even if in the tracker mechanism, I'd like to know what "to everybody satisfaction" means. It will once again be totally subjective, which then defies the whole process. I think too many people had to spend way too much time on this just to end up exactly where we were with no answers whatsoever (perhaps because there are none, if one existed I guess there would have been time to show it?). Again, I maintain a [NO]. Too bad we need to handle the discussion this way. 
Cheers,

Stefano Faccin

Standards Manager
Research In Motion Corporation 
5000 Riverside Drive 
Building 6, Brazos East, Ste. 100
Irving, Texas 75039 USA 
Note: located in PST

Office: (972) 910 3451  
Internal: 820.63451
Mobile : (510) 230 8422
www.rim.com; www.blackberry.com 

 Consider the environment before printing.

-----Original Message-----
From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com [mailto:Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:45 AM
To: Stefano Faccin
Cc: netext@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [netext] Consensus call: Adopt I-D draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03 as Netext WG doc?

Hi Stefano,

I realize that we have had discussions on these issues multiple times. But as you can see I cannot point to some text or emails on the list and say conclusively whether they have been resolved to everyones satisfaction or not. We will no doubt have the same discussion again. But I am hoping that with the use of the tracker and clearly capturing the issue and the proposed resolutions, we can at least make better decisions and eventually progress.

Please do write-up the issues and bring them to the list and/or issue tracker.

Thx.
-Raj

-----Original Message-----
From: ext Stefano Faccin [mailto:sfaccin@rim.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 1:41 PM
To: Patil Basavaraj (Nokia-CIC/Dallas)
Cc: netext@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [netext] Consensus call: Adopt I-D draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03 as Netext WG doc?

Raj,
Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I believe we are just postponing the discussion. If solutions had indeed been proposed, one would have had a chance to keep an open mind in considering it. For this reason, I have no choice but maintaining my indication as a "NO".
Cheers,

Stefano Faccin

Standards Manager
Research In Motion Corporation 
5000 Riverside Drive 
Building 6, Brazos East, Ste. 100
Irving, Texas 75039 USA 
Note: located in PST

Office: (972) 910 3451  
Internal: 820.63451
Mobile : (510) 230 8422
www.rim.com; www.blackberry.com 

 Consider the environment before printing.

-----Original Message-----
From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com [mailto:Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:37 AM
To: Stefano Faccin
Cc: netext@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netext] Consensus call: Adopt I-D draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03 as Netext WG doc?

Hi Stefano,

The chairs will monitor the discussion closely and any proposed solutions
to the issues that are raised. Unless we(chairs), the people raising the
issue, as well as the WG members, are not satisfied with the resolution we
will not progress the document.
The point about the process here is that at the moment we are spinning
wheels without making any forward progress. With a more formal approach to
the discussion and use of the tools, we hope to avoid discussions that are
in an unending loop. I do hope that folks who raise issues are also
willing to listen to solutions with an open mind.

-Raj

On 8/12/11 1:29 PM, "ext Stefano Faccin" <sfaccin@rim.com> wrote:

>Raj,
>May I ask a question regarding the process? You claim the issues are not
>show stoppers. Let's assume we proceed and handle them in the data
>tracker to dissatisfaction of the people raising them. What then? How
>would you achieve progress then?
>
>Stefano Faccin
>
>Standards Manager
>Research In Motion Corporation
>5000 Riverside Drive
>Building 6, Brazos East, Ste. 100
>Irving, Texas 75039 USA
>Note: located in PST
>
>Office: (972) 910 3451
>Internal: 820.63451
>Mobile : (510) 230 8422
>www.rim.com; www.blackberry.com
>
>
>
> Consider the environment before printing.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com [mailto:Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com]
>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:20 AM
>To: Stefano Faccin
>Cc: netext@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [netext] Consensus call: Adopt I-D
>draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03 as Netext WG doc?
>
>
>Hi Stefano,
>
>As I replied to Julien, I realize that we have discussed several aspects
>of the I-D multiple times. But I do not believe there are issues which
>could be termed as "fundamental" to the protocol.
>Hence my suggestion would be for folks to raise these issues through the
>tracker in a formal manner to ensure that they are resolved to the
>satisfaction of all. Please take the time to frame your concerns and
>issues on the ML and through the issue tracker.
>
>-Raj
>
>On 8/12/11 1:09 PM, "ext Stefano Faccin" <sfaccin@rim.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello Raj,
>>I cannot help but support Julien's view. He is correct that some points
>>were raised not once, not twice, but several times, and have still not
>>been addressed. 
>>
>>My answer to your question is
>>
>>> Q: Should we adopt as Netext WG I-D the document:
>>> draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03 which will be used as the
>>> starting point in specifying the flow mobility feature for Proxy
>>> Mobile IPv6?
>>>
>>Yes  [    ]
>>No    [ X ]
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Stefano Faccin
>>
>>Standards Manager
>>Research In Motion Corporation
>>5000 Riverside Drive
>>Building 6, Brazos East, Ste. 100
>>Irving, Texas 75039 USA
>>Note: located in PST
>>
>>Office: (972) 910 3451
>>Internal: 820.63451
>>Mobile : (510) 230 8422
>>www.rim.com; www.blackberry.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Consider the environment before printing.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:19 PM,  <Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> At IETF81 the chairs made a proposal to adopt as WG I-D: Proxy Mobile
>>>IPv6
>>> Extensions to Support Flow Mobility
>>> <draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03> As the starting point for
>>> the specification defining flow mobility for Proxy Mobile IPv6.
>>> We gauged support for and against adopting this I-D at the IETF81 WG
>>> meeting with the following result:
>>>
>>> In favor: 18
>>> Opposed: None
>>>
>>> As per process we are following up on the mailing list with the same
>>> question. Please respond by Aug 18th, 2011 to the question below:
>>>
>>> Q: Should we adopt as Netext WG I-D the document:
>>> draft-bernardos-netext-pmipv6-flowmob-03 which will be used as the
>>> starting point in specifying the flow mobility feature for Proxy
>>> Mobile IPv6?
>>>
>>> Yes   [ ]
>>> No    [ ]
>>>
>>>
>>> -Chairs
>>>
>>> IETF81 WG minutes are posted at:
>>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/81/minutes/netext.txt
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> netext mailing list
>>> netext@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netext
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>netext mailing list
>>netext@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netext
>>
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