Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci

Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> Fri, 26 April 2019 12:43 UTC

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From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 19:43:31 +0700
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To: "giorgio.simeoli@libero.it" <giorgio.simeoli@libero.it>
Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, "internetgovtech@iab.org" <internetgovtech@iab.org>, "nethistory@ietf.org" <nethistory@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
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Dear Giorgio and All,

Forgive me if I do not understand your message: if I did not miss things,
it came to me as a record of the talks under the same title: "The Internet,
Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Special
Reading": which were since the first sent by me until the last sent by Joe
Abley...

Was there things I missed of your message...?


Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Jumat, 26 April 2019, <giorgio.simeoli@libero.it>; menulis:

>
> Il 25 aprile 2019 alle 10.40 Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>;
> ha scritto:
>
> I actually have the same question ...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John C Klensin [mailto:john-ietf@jck.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 12:36 AM
> To: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
> Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>;;
> internetgovtech@iab.org; architecture-discuss@ietf.org;
> nethistory@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] The Internet, Architecture, Governance,
> Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
>
> Guntur,
>
> I've tried to following your multiple postings, but am getting more and
> more confused. Yes, there are some broad principles that can be considered
> together to constitute an "Internet architecture". Once one gets past
> extremely broad principles and down to details, I doubt that there is
> strong consensus in the community about many of the details of that
> architecture:
> there are other documents with different theories and some people would
> claim that some of the things that are said in some of the documents you
> have cited have not stood the test of time.
> Some of those principles interact with "Internet governance"; many,
> including questions about who should be in charge of various resources once
> one determines that someone, or some combination of actors, actually need
> to be, do not. The mailing lists you are using are appropriate for
> discussions of those issues although I think the case for cross-posting to
> internetgovtech and architecture-discuss, much less the nethistory list,
> has yet to be made.
>
> But what I don't understand --and what is confusing me more with each
> posting from you-- is why you are posting these notes and
> what you are trying to accomplish. Almost by definition, the
> readers of these lists know they exist and are out there. Most such
> readers know, or knew once, what the lists are supposed to be for. But
> almost everything I've read from you seems to be an explanation of the
> existence of an Internet architecture and/ or an Internet governance topic
> together with the existence and availability of the lists.
>
> Do you want something? Do you intend to try to explain something to us
> that we don't know already? If so, is that explanation likely to be
> actionable by the IETF or IAB and, if so, how. And, of course, what is it?
>
> thanks,
> john
>
> --On Thursday, April 25, 2019 08:16 +0700 Guntur Wiseno Putra <
> gsenopu@gmail.com>; wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> The Internet architecture --the Internet protocols and their
> designs-- are in situations among which is about its possible
> inplementations enabled by such a governance(s). That is supposedly a
> matter of the Internet Governance suitable with what was ever
> officially published by the Internet Architecture Board related with
> the release of internetgovtech@iab.org mailing list (2013)
>
> "to discuss topics regarding the intersection of Internet governance
> and IETF technical work. In particular, this list will focus on issues
> relating to Internet governance and regulation, including the 2014 ITU
> Plenipotentiary Conference, and their potential to impact the future
> of the Internet architecture".
>
> https://iab.org/activities/internet-governance/
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Kamis, 25 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
> menulis:
>
> Dear All,
>
> D. Thaler in his "Evolution of the IP Model" (RFC 6250) referring IP
> service model to section 2.2. of RFC 0791, RFC 1958, and section 2.1
> of RFC 4903 --while the document as a whole referring also to other
> RFCs.
>
> There are also other historians and futurologs ever analysed the
> Internet architecture examplified by
>
> RFC 3274 "The Rise of the Middle and the Future of End-to-End
> Argument: Reflections on the Evolution of the Internet Architecture"
> (Kempf, J. & R. Austen Eds., Network Working Group-IAB, 2004)
>
> This document examined the development of end-to-end principles as it
> had been applied by the Internet over years.
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3274
>
> RFC 1827 "Toward The Future Internet Architecture" (Clark, D.
> et all., Network Working Group, 1991)
>
> This document represented an understanding that the Internet
> architecture as "the grand plan behind the TCP/IP protocol suite"
> envisioned its possible evolution as there had been increasing signs
> of strains on the fundemental architecture mostly stemming from the
> continued growth of the Internet.
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1287
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Rabu, 24 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
> menulis:
>
> Dear All,
>
> The reasoning of "The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical
> Work, and Net History" I said above "Individuals, or collective
> individuals, are in an age of the
> Internet...": as it concerns with "concept", "discourse" and
> "history" is supposedly inspired by my personal experiences of
> reading works on and by Michel Foucault, Gilles Deleuze and Felix
> Guattari.
>
> To those have interests with the "supposed inspiration" are pleased
> to visit these links below
>
> https://www.espacestemps.net/?s=Foucault&x=7&y=8
>
> https://www.espacestemps.net/?s=Deleuze%2C+Guattari&x=0&y=0
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Rabu, 24 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
> menulis:
>
> Dear All,
>
> The websites www.datatracker.ietf.org and www.rfc-editor.org are
> historians for the services of historical archives the provide.
> While a personal historian may deserve to mention, especially on
> the "Internet
> Architecture":
>
> D. Thaler documented aspects of Internet Protocol service model as
> they evolved over time .... Some guidence for protocol designers an
> implementers were also suggested...
>
> "RFC 6250: Evolution of IP Service Model" (IAB, May 2011)
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6250
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
> menulis:
>
> Dear All,
>
> As Brian E. Carpenter referred the "Internet Architecture"
> to Internet protocols and their designs (mentioned in my message
> April 21st 2019): it looks "special" to mention "RFC 791: Internet
> Protocol" (J. Postel, September 1981) and its histories -- those
> obsolete and updates: which is about the name/title "Internet
> Protocol" they have...
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791
>
> The RFC 791 is one of Official Internet Protocol
> Standards: Internet Standards --of which there are ones do not use
> terms "Internet Protocol" -- for examples "Transmission Control
> Protocol", "User Datagram Protocol", " Broadcasting Internet
> Datagrams"...
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>
> Dear All,
>
> As Brian E. Carpenter referred the "Internet Architecture" to
> Internet protocols and their designs (mentioned in my message
> April 21st 2019): it looks "special" to mention "RFC 791:
> Internet Protocol" (J.
> Postel, September 1981) and its histories -- those obsolete and
> updates: which is about the name/title "Internet Protocol" they
> have....
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>
> Dear Hesham and All,
>
> There is a need for correction for the earlier message:
>
> The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I
> missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of
> "Architectural Principles of the Internet" (1996) as the latter
> considered complexity (control) in relation with the Internet in
> large scale...
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt
>
> It should be:
>
> The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I
> missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of
> "Architectural Principles of the Internet" (1996) as the first
> considered complexity (control) in relation with the Internet in
> large scale...
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt
>
> Regard,
> Gintur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>
> Dear Hesham and All,
>
> The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I
> missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of
> "Architectural Principles of the Internet"
> (1996) as the latter considered complexity (control) in
> relation with the Internet in large scale...
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Senin, 22 April 2019, Hesham ElBakoury <
> Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>; menulis:
>
> I think you meant RFC1958 which is updated by RFC3439.
>
> Hesham
>
> *From:* Architecture-discuss
> [mailto:architecture-discuss-b ounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Guntur Wiseno Putra *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2019 6:41 AM
> *To:* architecture-discuss@ietf.org; internetgovtech@iab.org;
> nethistory@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [arch-d] The Internet, Architecture, Governance,
> Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
>
> Dear All,
>
> Of the question "What is the Internet Architecture?"
> mentioned in the earlier message:
>
> Brian. E. Carpenter's text "RFC 1985: Architectural Principles
> of the Internet" mentioned about Internet protocols and their
> design: May this links helpful to get arrived there at related
> archives ( as the text did not use any online source but
> suppposedly paper ones as references)...:
>
>    - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=
>
>
>    - https://www.rfc-editor.org/
>
> Here are menus "Internet Standard", "Official
> Internet Protocol Standards", and "advanced search".
>
> Regard,
>
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Senin, 22 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>
> Dear All,
>
> Individuals, or collectifs of individuals, are in an age of
> the Internet. It is such a presence may be approached and
> sensed by many ways --even when one said that s/he had just
> eat a food which a receipt was gotten by communicating by the
> Internet..
>
> Among others there are presences of "the Internet
> Architecture", "Internet Governance and Technical Work" and
> "Net History" as they represent interest-based mailing lists.
> How could one get arrived into those matters (together) --such
> a programmatic readership/learning: as sources and concepts
> have history and discources collectives/net... ? Should we
> imagine about information sources by making such a readership
> based on the linkage between the three...? Thus we may say
> about "The Internet Architecture, Governance and Technical
> Works: a Net History" (to say "A Net History in Terms of The
> Internet Architecture, Governance and Technical Work)...?
> --there would be a discourse map on the special readership
> which is about a co-presence of mailing lists...? --as one may
> use search engines of each mailing list for related
> interests...?
>
> To make an engagement with the programme should we go with
> such tentative journeys considering parts of the special
> readership...?
>
> For example:
>
> By considering the reasoning above:
>
> To the question on "What is the Internet Architecture?" we may
> refer to (archival) sources
>
> "RFC 1958: Architectural Principles of the Internet"
>
> (Carpenter, Brian E. Ed, IAB, 1996)
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1958
>
> (Note:)
>
> It was a snapshot record of the principles of the Internet
> Achitecture intended for general guidance and general
> interest...
>
> It was updated by RFC 3439...
>
> Both the concept "Internet Architecture" and the document RFC
> 1958 have history bringing readers to other relevant
> sources... They supposedly also give suggestions to come to
> broader or other conceptual discourses on "governance and
> technical work"
>
> Regard,
>
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
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