Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> Fri, 26 April 2019 12:43 UTC
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From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 19:43:31 +0700
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To: "giorgio.simeoli@libero.it" <giorgio.simeoli@libero.it>
Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, "internetgovtech@iab.org" <internetgovtech@iab.org>, "nethistory@ietf.org" <nethistory@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
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Dear Giorgio and All, Forgive me if I do not understand your message: if I did not miss things, it came to me as a record of the talks under the same title: "The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Special Reading": which were since the first sent by me until the last sent by Joe Abley... Was there things I missed of your message...? Regard, Guntur Wiseno Putra Pada Jumat, 26 April 2019, <giorgio.simeoli@libero.it> menulis: > > Il 25 aprile 2019 alle 10.40 Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com> > ha scritto: > > I actually have the same question ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: John C Klensin [mailto:john-ietf@jck.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 12:36 AM > To: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> > Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>; > internetgovtech@iab.org; architecture-discuss@ietf.org; > nethistory@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, > Technical Work and Net History: A Speci > > Guntur, > > I've tried to following your multiple postings, but am getting more and > more confused. Yes, there are some broad principles that can be considered > together to constitute an "Internet architecture". Once one gets past > extremely broad principles and down to details, I doubt that there is > strong consensus in the community about many of the details of that > architecture: > there are other documents with different theories and some people would > claim that some of the things that are said in some of the documents you > have cited have not stood the test of time. > Some of those principles interact with "Internet governance"; many, > including questions about who should be in charge of various resources once > one determines that someone, or some combination of actors, actually need > to be, do not. The mailing lists you are using are appropriate for > discussions of those issues although I think the case for cross-posting to > internetgovtech and architecture-discuss, much less the nethistory list, > has yet to be made. > > But what I don't understand --and what is confusing me more with each > posting from you-- is why you are posting these notes and > what you are trying to accomplish. Almost by definition, the > readers of these lists know they exist and are out there. Most such > readers know, or knew once, what the lists are supposed to be for. But > almost everything I've read from you seems to be an explanation of the > existence of an Internet architecture and/ or an Internet governance topic > together with the existence and availability of the lists. > > Do you want something? Do you intend to try to explain something to us > that we don't know already? If so, is that explanation likely to be > actionable by the IETF or IAB and, if so, how. And, of course, what is it? > > thanks, > john > > --On Thursday, April 25, 2019 08:16 +0700 Guntur Wiseno Putra < > gsenopu@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear All, > > The Internet architecture --the Internet protocols and their > designs-- are in situations among which is about its possible > inplementations enabled by such a governance(s). That is supposedly a > matter of the Internet Governance suitable with what was ever > officially published by the Internet Architecture Board related with > the release of internetgovtech@iab.org mailing list (2013) > > "to discuss topics regarding the intersection of Internet governance > and IETF technical work. In particular, this list will focus on issues > relating to Internet governance and regulation, including the 2014 ITU > Plenipotentiary Conference, and their potential to impact the future > of the Internet architecture". > > https://iab.org/activities/internet-governance/ > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Kamis, 25 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> > menulis: > > Dear All, > > D. Thaler in his "Evolution of the IP Model" (RFC 6250) referring IP > service model to section 2.2. of RFC 0791, RFC 1958, and section 2.1 > of RFC 4903 --while the document as a whole referring also to other > RFCs. > > There are also other historians and futurologs ever analysed the > Internet architecture examplified by > > RFC 3274 "The Rise of the Middle and the Future of End-to-End > Argument: Reflections on the Evolution of the Internet Architecture" > (Kempf, J. & R. Austen Eds., Network Working Group-IAB, 2004) > > This document examined the development of end-to-end principles as it > had been applied by the Internet over years. > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3274 > > RFC 1827 "Toward The Future Internet Architecture" (Clark, D. > et all., Network Working Group, 1991) > > This document represented an understanding that the Internet > architecture as "the grand plan behind the TCP/IP protocol suite" > envisioned its possible evolution as there had been increasing signs > of strains on the fundemental architecture mostly stemming from the > continued growth of the Internet. > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1287 > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Rabu, 24 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> > menulis: > > Dear All, > > The reasoning of "The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical > Work, and Net History" I said above "Individuals, or collective > individuals, are in an age of the > Internet...": as it concerns with "concept", "discourse" and > "history" is supposedly inspired by my personal experiences of > reading works on and by Michel Foucault, Gilles Deleuze and Felix > Guattari. > > To those have interests with the "supposed inspiration" are pleased > to visit these links below > > https://www.espacestemps.net/?s=Foucault&x=7&y=8 > > https://www.espacestemps.net/?s=Deleuze%2C+Guattari&x=0&y=0 > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Rabu, 24 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> > menulis: > > Dear All, > > The websites www.datatracker.ietf.org and www.rfc-editor.org are > historians for the services of historical archives the provide. > While a personal historian may deserve to mention, especially on > the "Internet > Architecture": > > D. Thaler documented aspects of Internet Protocol service model as > they evolved over time .... Some guidence for protocol designers an > implementers were also suggested... > > "RFC 6250: Evolution of IP Service Model" (IAB, May 2011) > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6250 > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> > menulis: > > Dear All, > > As Brian E. Carpenter referred the "Internet Architecture" > to Internet protocols and their designs (mentioned in my message > April 21st 2019): it looks "special" to mention "RFC 791: Internet > Protocol" (J. Postel, September 1981) and its histories -- those > obsolete and updates: which is about the name/title "Internet > Protocol" they have... > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791 > > The RFC 791 is one of Official Internet Protocol > Standards: Internet Standards --of which there are ones do not use > terms "Internet Protocol" -- for examples "Transmission Control > Protocol", "User Datagram Protocol", " Broadcasting Internet > Datagrams"... > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra > <gsenopu@gmail.com> menulis: > > Dear All, > > As Brian E. Carpenter referred the "Internet Architecture" to > Internet protocols and their designs (mentioned in my message > April 21st 2019): it looks "special" to mention "RFC 791: > Internet Protocol" (J. > Postel, September 1981) and its histories -- those obsolete and > updates: which is about the name/title "Internet Protocol" they > have.... > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791 > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra > <gsenopu@gmail.com> menulis: > > Dear Hesham and All, > > There is a need for correction for the earlier message: > > The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I > missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of > "Architectural Principles of the Internet" (1996) as the latter > considered complexity (control) in relation with the Internet in > large scale... > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt > > It should be: > > The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I > missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of > "Architectural Principles of the Internet" (1996) as the first > considered complexity (control) in relation with the Internet in > large scale... > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt > > Regard, > Gintur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra > <gsenopu@gmail.com> menulis: > > Dear Hesham and All, > > The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I > missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of > "Architectural Principles of the Internet" > (1996) as the latter considered complexity (control) in > relation with the Internet in large scale... > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt > > Regard, > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Senin, 22 April 2019, Hesham ElBakoury < > Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com> menulis: > > I think you meant RFC1958 which is updated by RFC3439. > > Hesham > > *From:* Architecture-discuss > [mailto:architecture-discuss-b ounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Guntur Wiseno Putra *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2019 6:41 AM > *To:* architecture-discuss@ietf.org; internetgovtech@iab.org; > nethistory@ietf.org > *Subject:* [arch-d] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, > Technical Work and Net History: A Speci > > Dear All, > > Of the question "What is the Internet Architecture?" > mentioned in the earlier message: > > Brian. E. Carpenter's text "RFC 1985: Architectural Principles > of the Internet" mentioned about Internet protocols and their > design: May this links helpful to get arrived there at related > archives ( as the text did not use any online source but > suppposedly paper ones as references)...: > > - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name= > > > - https://www.rfc-editor.org/ > > Here are menus "Internet Standard", "Official > Internet Protocol Standards", and "advanced search". > > Regard, > > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > Pada Senin, 22 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra > <gsenopu@gmail.com> menulis: > > Dear All, > > Individuals, or collectifs of individuals, are in an age of > the Internet. It is such a presence may be approached and > sensed by many ways --even when one said that s/he had just > eat a food which a receipt was gotten by communicating by the > Internet.. > > Among others there are presences of "the Internet > Architecture", "Internet Governance and Technical Work" and > "Net History" as they represent interest-based mailing lists. > How could one get arrived into those matters (together) --such > a programmatic readership/learning: as sources and concepts > have history and discources collectives/net... ? Should we > imagine about information sources by making such a readership > based on the linkage between the three...? Thus we may say > about "The Internet Architecture, Governance and Technical > Works: a Net History" (to say "A Net History in Terms of The > Internet Architecture, Governance and Technical Work)...? > --there would be a discourse map on the special readership > which is about a co-presence of mailing lists...? --as one may > use search engines of each mailing list for related > interests...? > > To make an engagement with the programme should we go with > such tentative journeys considering parts of the special > readership...? > > For example: > > By considering the reasoning above: > > To the question on "What is the Internet Architecture?" we may > refer to (archival) sources > > "RFC 1958: Architectural Principles of the Internet" > > (Carpenter, Brian E. Ed, IAB, 1996) > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1958 > > (Note:) > > It was a snapshot record of the principles of the Internet > Achitecture intended for general guidance and general > interest... > > It was updated by RFC 3439... > > Both the concept "Internet Architecture" and the document RFC > 1958 have history bringing readers to other relevant > sources... They supposedly also give suggestions to come to > broader or other conceptual discourses on "governance and > technical work" > > Regard, > > Guntur Wiseno Putra > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture-discuss mailing list > Architecture-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss > >
- [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governan… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governan… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] [arch-d] The Internet, Architect… Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governan… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governan… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governan… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governan… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] [Internetgovtech] The Internet, … John C Klensin
- Re: [Nethistory] [Internetgovtech] The Internet, … Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… John C Klensin
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Joe Abley
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Joe Abley
- Re: [Nethistory] [arch-d] [Internetgovtech] The I… giorgio.simeoli
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra
- Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Gove… Guntur Wiseno Putra