Re: [Nethistory] Message from administrator Fwd: Need a change

Elizabeth Feinler <feinler@earthlink.net> Fri, 04 January 2019 22:08 UTC

Return-Path: <feinler@earthlink.net>
X-Original-To: nethistory@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: nethistory@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF7A1271FF for <nethistory@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 14:08:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=earthlink.net; domainkeys=pass (2048-bit key) header.from=feinler@earthlink.net header.d=earthlink.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X7q_p9qcvACr for <nethistory@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 14:08:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61EA0126BED for <nethistory@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 14:08:51 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=earthlink.net; s=dk12062016; t=1546639731; bh=xW/TMLa7OMVpDhXJ8Xyuz5YUZa3UfuxZfJdu 5LXhVyk=; h=Received:From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version: Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace: X-Originating-IP; b=GQQinJlm00RCoVfzVqDO23Rju51AllJ15MXVo57DRfCi7J fbUDPU/HiwS1ZSvLgnx39DjHBO+7JJXrIxDlrgcL2c2Y7BACz19fSWb5BIn4XWggxZ1 gPJYH4HKMLD0DO/v92WOd/xM6j2aGDF5eYCasOaeBMtnX16FbM9gVJMq45XOiHMGXPx dzIIdWDhM2z7eGuY4tcIuW0l3CElMpfGNTPcx7i9QKZv+5Nd2dhNVv6N5wJVq8WXqY5 CHqQS7oN7J/VaeldkbAEdJ021cDQ368FA4rg2lQN3tXhtWdmXZYCeg5hRzv/1bShOw/ fsVmtmw7sh1+HZvjrq7IhFT3a2YQ==
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=earthlink.net; b=sCkDBeFPGOQNnNP6QNXDzQjN5rYp9e2g2vuWW6FsJ8k3CYLPIasiVPBi8+vOlkgDFAYXcxYR79OlIz/lYLPkzT2b2h9lKkVXAB1y5UIsmRtnfLynnz32KD010JHL/SXbE77jAVbfhAmds2ctePItxxvotfpGKVdbG9934jUxsapBAI3NGJ52tv5MkC/RKSek7QX15XkFy4ymmGYcb4MNl/vy4Uwd4pTOgx5gB7DNH5olu2AyrcBXdKtrn50QfBvHS+YawBD2naYKpx7EDnq6VZol618LyNQ/F9f7UbI0rH/90pWbmahONVtXoqbOy+grP2lnga0q7qZEsHb5y+e62A==; h=Received:From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP;
Received: from [69.106.51.176] (helo=[10.0.1.7]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4) (envelope-from <feinler@earthlink.net>) id 1gfXe5-000CGe-Cy; Fri, 04 Jan 2019 17:08:50 -0500
From: Elizabeth Feinler <feinler@earthlink.net>
Message-Id: <41926F23-BAC8-431D-A2E8-679FE016151E@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5C7D61F1-08E6-462B-8850-C1910E5DD517"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\))
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 14:08:48 -0800
In-Reply-To: <8DDDE1D2-1087-4211-A2E7-388124A3FB05@att.net>
Cc: nethistory@ietf.org, feinler Elizabeth <feinler@earthlink.com>
To: Marc Weber <marcweber@att.net>
References: <CE02E86F-0148-4F86-AB1A-91D20C790E13@att.net> <8DDDE1D2-1087-4211-A2E7-388124A3FB05@att.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1)
X-ELNK-Trace: 3e5b4c0061061515d780f4a490ca6956846b590522b13c954856e150b497a1bd395b2d2a47cc7466350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
X-Originating-IP: 69.106.51.176
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nethistory/OrCa66Iw37AIhVchtN1DaqSxRXQ>
Subject: Re: [Nethistory] Message from administrator Fwd: Need a change
X-BeenThere: nethistory@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Matching net historical materials with institutions that may preserve them <nethistory.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/nethistory>, <mailto:nethistory-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/nethistory/>
List-Post: <mailto:nethistory@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:nethistory-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nethistory>, <mailto:nethistory-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:08:54 -0000

I am glad that my message got some debate going.  :-)

I agree with Marc that the original intent of the group was PRESERVATION, not recollection or participation.  The idea was to make donors  aware of institutions who are maintaining major historical collections, and to have a forum for these institutions to share knowledge with each other.  My own collection almost went into recycle before I rescued it.  Then I had to shop around to find a home for it.  I’ve been in the information business for a long time and was able to find people who knew the value of the collection.  This inn’t easy for someone who is not familiar with how to make a donation or to whom.  If, as often happens, a collection is left to family members because the owner is ill or dies, we need a well-known process to help them   I have seen websites with valuable historical information disappear because the owner died or lost interest in keeping it up.  If someone calls ISOC or IETF do you have instructions and suggestions for them?

We all know of institutions such as the Computer History Museum, the Internet Archive, the Smithsonian, the Babbage Institute.  Donors are less aware of such Institutions worldwide that may serve users in different languages or have nich collections.  Who and where are such institutions and what do they collect?  How can the major collection institutions compliment each other, set standards, reach donors, share and/or avoid duplicates , or whatever.  I think this discussion is quite distinct from nethistory@postel.org which is focused on historical recollection and participation in developing the Internet.  

I also agree with Marc that the 50th anniversary year of the Internet (and other anniversaries soon to follow) is a good time to emphasize the importance of saving historical archives and artifacts.  Let donors know who you are, where you are, and what you collect

Guess that is my 2c worth for what it is worth,
Happy New Year to all!

Jake

> On Jan 4, 2019, at 9:27 AM, Marc Weber <marcweber@att.net>; wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> As I wrote a couple of days ago I’m the other administrator; Jake and I started the list after the IETF Nethistory BoF we did in 2013 in Florida. I head the Internet History Program <http://computerhistory.org/nethistory> at the Computer History Museum (one of our core archives is the ARC/NIC collection that Jake preserved for some years in her own garage; we recently co-organized two events <http://thedemoat50.org/> for the 50th of Engelbart’s Demo). Jake has asked me to take her off the list which I’ll do when I’m back from Europe at the end of January. 
> 
> I too have been very concerned about the future of the list, and have been thinking of ways to make it more active in this anniversary year (50 for the ARPAnet and CompuServe, 30 for the Web, lots of others). I will certainly appreciate help and suggestions! 
> 
> The anniversaries are a great opportunity to make people aware that there are institutions interested in preserving the kinds of historical materials they may have in their garage or attic. Incidentally the Computer History Museum does not only collect paper and 3D objects; we have major software, oral history, and multimedia collections and a Center for Software History. We also  work closely with the Internet Archive and other institutions around the world; the original purpose of the BoF was to try and get pioneers connected with archiving institutions near them. 
> 
> For my part I was planning to invite a number of people involved in preservation who were not at the BoF. Perhaps it is also time to spread the word again though the IETF and ISOC. As Heather wrote we have been collaborating with her and the IETF on mirroring RFCs.
> 
> I am happy to consider changing the name to something like netpreservation@ietf.org <mailto:netpreservation@ietf.org> to better reflect the purpose; any suggestions for something short and sweet much appreciated. I should note however that the scope was always meant to be networking in a broader sense, i.e. including Web and mobile, and thus only partly overlapping with the Postel institute list. 
> 
> Best wishes for this New Year,
> 
> Marc
> 
> 
> Marc Weber <http://www.computerhistory.org/staff/Marc,Weber/>  |   marc@webhistory.org <mailto:marc@webhistory.org>  |   +1 415 282 6868 
> Internet History Program Curatorial Director, Computer History Museum            
> 1401 N Shoreline Blvd., Mountain View CA 94043 computerhistory.org/nethistory <http://computerhistory.org/nethistory>
> Co-founder, Web History Center and Project, webhistory.org <http://webhistory.org/> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: Marc Weber <marcweber@att.net <mailto:marcweber@att.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [Nethistory] Need a change
>> Date: January 3, 2019 at 11:16:04 GMT+1
>> To: Sanjeev Gupta <ghane0@gmail.com <mailto:ghane0@gmail.com>>
>> Cc: Elizabeth/Jake Feinier <feinler@earthlink.net <mailto:feinler@earthlink.net>>, nethistory@ietf.org <mailto:nethistory@ietf.org>
>> 
>> Dear all,
>> I’m the other administrator, and will take care of when I’m back from the holidays at the end of January.
>> Best, Marc Weber
>> 
>> Marc Weber <http://www.computerhistory.org/staff/Marc,Weber/>  |   marc@webhistory.org <mailto:marc@webhistory.org>  |   +1 415 282 6868 
>> Internet History Program Curatorial Director, Computer History Museum            
>> 1401 N Shoreline Blvd., Mountain View CA 94043 computerhistory.org/nethistory <http://computerhistory.org/nethistory>
>> Co-founder, Web History Center and Project, webhistory.org <http://webhistory.org/> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2019, at 07:59, Sanjeev Gupta <ghane0@gmail.com <mailto:ghane0@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:38 AM Elizabeth Feinler <feinler@earthlink.net <mailto:feinler@earthlink.net>> wrote:
>>> I am not sure who is still on this mailing list, but if you are still out there I have a request.
>>> 
>>> For any newcomers (?), this is Ms Feinler:
>>> https://www.internethalloffame.org/inductees/elizabeth-feinler <https://www.internethalloffame.org/inductees/elizabeth-feinler>
>>>  
>>> 1) will one of you volunteer to coordinate this mailing list and remove my name as coordinator and 2) will you change its name to “saving internet archives” or something similar that does not confuse people .
>>> 
>>> I am not sure there is much work to coordinate, there having been no traffic on the list for months in a row.  I can remember only two things, JPNIC published a Timeline of the Internet, and there was some discussion of whether the DNS<->IP address list fit in a wallet.
>>> 
>>> The mailing list is archived, for the historians of the future, so maybe we could sunset this project?
>>> -- 
>>> Sanjeev Gupta
>>> +65 98551208     http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane>
>>>   
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nethistory mailing list
>>> Nethistory@ietf.org <mailto:Nethistory@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nethistory <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nethistory>
>> 
>