Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci

Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> Sun, 28 April 2019 08:42 UTC

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From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:42:26 +0700
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Subject: Re: [Nethistory] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
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Dear All,

A statement need to correct (from the previous message):

Naming, routing, security, network management, meeting the future needs and
else mentioned in the "RFC 3868 IAB Concerns and Recommendations Regarding
with Internet Research and Evolution sec. 3 (2004)" were open research
topics. While "RFC 1958 Architectural Principles of the Internet (1996)
regarded  that the Internet Architecture was about the Internet
architecture and internetworking layer for connectivity...:  What are those
between the two RFCs...? Would it be other chapters of a reading...?


https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3869
(A link address I missed to attach to the right previous message to these
mailing lists)


It should be:


Naming, routing, security, network management, meeting the future needs and
else mentioned in the "RFC 3868 IAB Concerns and Recommendations Regarding
with Internet Research and Evolution sec. 3 (2004)" were open research
topics. While "RFC 1958 Architectural Principles of the Internet (1996)
regarded  that the Internet Architecture was about ***the Internet
protocols and their designs and internetworking layer for
connectivity...***:  What are those between the two RFCs...? Would it be
other chapters of a reading...?


https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3869
(A link address I missed to attach to the right previous message to these
mailing lists)




Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Minggu, 28 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:

> Dear All,
>
>
> Naming, routing, security, network management, meeting the future needs
> and else mentioned in the "RFC 3868 IAB Concerns and Recommendations
> Regarding with Internet Research and Evolution sec. 3 (2004)" were open
> research topics. While "RFC 1958 Architectural Principles of the Internet
> (1996) regarded  that the Internet Architecture was about the Internet
> architecture and internetworking layer for connectivity...:  What are those
> between the two RFCs...? Would it be other chapters of a reading...?
>
>
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3869
> (A link address I missed to attach to the right previous message to these
> mailing lists)
>
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
> Pada Sabtu, 27 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
> menulis:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> As we came with other readings, then we met the one, or the ones, having
>> similarities but also difference with the previous ones --which may be a
>> problem of designing such a reading, that accumulating readings and
>> relating with real-time communications such as these mailing lists and thus
>> relating with such a track of reading:
>>
>> Here we met "RFC 3869  IAB Concerns Regarding with Internet Research and
>> Evolution" (Atkinson R. & S. Floyd eds, Network Working Group-IAB, 2004)
>> --one that was with certain degree of seriousness, to say that it had an
>> institutionalized standard of the Internet Architecture Board.
>>
>> The document was concerned with history and about the Internet research
>> funding (section 2) but there a list of open research topics (section 3)
>> ranging from naming, routing, security, networks management, meeting the
>> future needs and else.
>>
>> Another we may say about this document is a matter of the Internet
>> Governance as it explicitly mentioned about a non-ownership of the global
>> Internet infrastructure by a single organization affecting funding
>> considerations (section 1.2) --we may say that the Internet Governance is
>> about management of tge Internet affairs such asresearch activities...
>>
>> Here we may compare it to what B. Carpenter said in "RFC 1958
>> Architectural Principles of the Internet" that nobody owns the Internet
>> (section 2.4).
>>
>>
>> Regard,
>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Giorgio and All,
>>
>> Forgive me if I do not understand your message: of I did not miss it came
>> to me as a record of the talks under the same title: "The Internet,
>> Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Special
>> Reading": which are since the first sent by me until the last sent by Joe
>> Abley
>>
>> Was there things I missed...?
>>
>>
>> Regard,
>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>
>> Pada Jumat, 26 April 2019, <giorgio.simeoli@libero.it>; menulis:
>>
>>>
>>> Il 25 aprile 2019 alle 10.40 Hesham ElBakoury <
>>> Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>; ha scritto:
>>>
>>> I actually have the same question ...
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John C Klensin [mailto:john-ietf@jck.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 12:36 AM
>>> To: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
>>> Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>;;
>>> internetgovtech@iab.org; architecture-discuss@ietf.org;
>>> nethistory@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] The Internet, Architecture, Governance,
>>> Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
>>>
>>> Guntur,
>>>
>>> I've tried to following your multiple postings, but am getting more and
>>> more confused. Yes, there are some broad principles that can be considered
>>> together to constitute an "Internet architecture". Once one gets past
>>> extremely broad principles and down to details, I doubt that there is
>>> strong consensus in the community about many of the details of that
>>> architecture:
>>> there are other documents with different theories and some people would
>>> claim that some of the things that are said in some of the documents you
>>> have cited have not stood the test of time.
>>> Some of those principles interact with "Internet governance"; many,
>>> including questions about who should be in charge of various resources once
>>> one determines that someone, or some combination of actors, actually need
>>> to be, do not. The mailing lists you are using are appropriate for
>>> discussions of those issues although I think the case for cross-posting to
>>> internetgovtech and architecture-discuss, much less the nethistory list,
>>> has yet to be made.
>>>
>>> But what I don't understand --and what is confusing me more with each
>>> posting from you-- is why you are posting these notes and
>>> what you are trying to accomplish. Almost by definition, the
>>> readers of these lists know they exist and are out there. Most such
>>> readers know, or knew once, what the lists are supposed to be for. But
>>> almost everything I've read from you seems to be an explanation of the
>>> existence of an Internet architecture and/ or an Internet governance topic
>>> together with the existence and availability of the lists.
>>>
>>> Do you want something? Do you intend to try to explain something to us
>>> that we don't know already? If so, is that explanation likely to be
>>> actionable by the IETF or IAB and, if so, how. And, of course, what is it?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> john
>>>
>>> --On Thursday, April 25, 2019 08:16 +0700 Guntur Wiseno Putra <
>>> gsenopu@gmail.com>; wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> The Internet architecture --the Internet protocols and their
>>> designs-- are in situations among which is about its possible
>>> inplementations enabled by such a governance(s). That is supposedly a
>>> matter of the Internet Governance suitable with what was ever
>>> officially published by the Internet Architecture Board related with
>>> the release of internetgovtech@iab.org mailing list (2013)
>>>
>>> "to discuss topics regarding the intersection of Internet governance
>>> and IETF technical work. In particular, this list will focus on issues
>>> relating to Internet governance and regulation, including the 2014 ITU
>>> Plenipotentiary Conference, and their potential to impact the future
>>> of the Internet architecture".
>>>
>>> https://iab.org/activities/internet-governance/
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Kamis, 25 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
>>> menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> D. Thaler in his "Evolution of the IP Model" (RFC 6250) referring IP
>>> service model to section 2.2. of RFC 0791, RFC 1958, and section 2.1
>>> of RFC 4903 --while the document as a whole referring also to other
>>> RFCs.
>>>
>>> There are also other historians and futurologs ever analysed the
>>> Internet architecture examplified by
>>>
>>> RFC 3274 "The Rise of the Middle and the Future of End-to-End
>>> Argument: Reflections on the Evolution of the Internet Architecture"
>>> (Kempf, J. & R. Austen Eds., Network Working Group-IAB, 2004)
>>>
>>> This document examined the development of end-to-end principles as it
>>> had been applied by the Internet over years.
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3274
>>>
>>> RFC 1827 "Toward The Future Internet Architecture" (Clark, D.
>>> et all., Network Working Group, 1991)
>>>
>>> This document represented an understanding that the Internet
>>> architecture as "the grand plan behind the TCP/IP protocol suite"
>>> envisioned its possible evolution as there had been increasing signs
>>> of strains on the fundemental architecture mostly stemming from the
>>> continued growth of the Internet.
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1287
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Rabu, 24 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
>>> menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> The reasoning of "The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical
>>> Work, and Net History" I said above "Individuals, or collective
>>> individuals, are in an age of the
>>> Internet...": as it concerns with "concept", "discourse" and
>>> "history" is supposedly inspired by my personal experiences of
>>> reading works on and by Michel Foucault, Gilles Deleuze and Felix
>>> Guattari.
>>>
>>> To those have interests with the "supposed inspiration" are pleased
>>> to visit these links below
>>>
>>> https://www.espacestemps.net/?s=Foucault&x=7&y=8
>>>
>>> https://www.espacestemps.net/?s=Deleuze%2C+Guattari&x=0&y=0
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Rabu, 24 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
>>> menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> The websites www.datatracker.ietf.org and www.rfc-editor.org are
>>> historians for the services of historical archives the provide.
>>> While a personal historian may deserve to mention, especially on
>>> the "Internet
>>> Architecture":
>>>
>>> D. Thaler documented aspects of Internet Protocol service model as
>>> they evolved over time .... Some guidence for protocol designers an
>>> implementers were also suggested...
>>>
>>> "RFC 6250: Evolution of IP Service Model" (IAB, May 2011)
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6250
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>;
>>> menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> As Brian E. Carpenter referred the "Internet Architecture"
>>> to Internet protocols and their designs (mentioned in my message
>>> April 21st 2019): it looks "special" to mention "RFC 791: Internet
>>> Protocol" (J. Postel, September 1981) and its histories -- those
>>> obsolete and updates: which is about the name/title "Internet
>>> Protocol" they have...
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791
>>>
>>> The RFC 791 is one of Official Internet Protocol
>>> Standards: Internet Standards --of which there are ones do not use
>>> terms "Internet Protocol" -- for examples "Transmission Control
>>> Protocol", "User Datagram Protocol", " Broadcasting Internet
>>> Datagrams"...
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> As Brian E. Carpenter referred the "Internet Architecture" to
>>> Internet protocols and their designs (mentioned in my message
>>> April 21st 2019): it looks "special" to mention "RFC 791:
>>> Internet Protocol" (J.
>>> Postel, September 1981) and its histories -- those obsolete and
>>> updates: which is about the name/title "Internet Protocol" they
>>> have....
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear Hesham and All,
>>>
>>> There is a need for correction for the earlier message:
>>>
>>> The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I
>>> missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of
>>> "Architectural Principles of the Internet" (1996) as the latter
>>> considered complexity (control) in relation with the Internet in
>>> large scale...
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt
>>>
>>> It should be:
>>>
>>> The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I
>>> missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of
>>> "Architectural Principles of the Internet" (1996) as the first
>>> considered complexity (control) in relation with the Internet in
>>> large scale...
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Gintur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Selasa, 23 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear Hesham and All,
>>>
>>> The update "The Architectural Guidelines" (2002) --which I
>>> missed before-- was made to propose such an extension of
>>> "Architectural Principles of the Internet"
>>> (1996) as the latter considered complexity (control) in
>>> relation with the Internet in large scale...
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3439.txt
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Senin, 22 April 2019, Hesham ElBakoury <
>>> Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>; menulis:
>>>
>>> I think you meant RFC1958 which is updated by RFC3439.
>>>
>>> Hesham
>>>
>>> *From:* Architecture-discuss
>>> [mailto:architecture-discuss-b ounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of
>>> *Guntur Wiseno Putra *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2019 6:41 AM
>>> *To:* architecture-discuss@ietf.org; internetgovtech@iab.org;
>>> nethistory@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* [arch-d] The Internet, Architecture, Governance,
>>> Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> Of the question "What is the Internet Architecture?"
>>> mentioned in the earlier message:
>>>
>>> Brian. E. Carpenter's text "RFC 1985: Architectural Principles
>>> of the Internet" mentioned about Internet protocols and their
>>> design: May this links helpful to get arrived there at related
>>> archives ( as the text did not use any online source but
>>> suppposedly paper ones as references)...:
>>>
>>>    - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search?name=
>>>
>>>
>>>    - https://www.rfc-editor.org/
>>>
>>> Here are menus "Internet Standard", "Official
>>> Internet Protocol Standards", and "advanced search".
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>>
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> Pada Senin, 22 April 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; menulis:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> Individuals, or collectifs of individuals, are in an age of
>>> the Internet. It is such a presence may be approached and
>>> sensed by many ways --even when one said that s/he had just
>>> eat a food which a receipt was gotten by communicating by the
>>> Internet..
>>>
>>> Among others there are presences of "the Internet
>>> Architecture", "Internet Governance and Technical Work" and
>>> "Net History" as they represent interest-based mailing lists.
>>> How could one get arrived into those matters (together) --such
>>> a programmatic readership/learning: as sources and concepts
>>> have history and discources collectives/net... ? Should we
>>> imagine about information sources by making such a readership
>>> based on the linkage between the three...? Thus we may say
>>> about "The Internet Architecture, Governance and Technical
>>> Works: a Net History" (to say "A Net History in Terms of The
>>> Internet Architecture, Governance and Technical Work)...?
>>> --there would be a discourse map on the special readership
>>> which is about a co-presence of mailing lists...? --as one may
>>> use search engines of each mailing list for related
>>> interests...?
>>>
>>> To make an engagement with the programme should we go with
>>> such tentative journeys considering parts of the special
>>> readership...?
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> By considering the reasoning above:
>>>
>>> To the question on "What is the Internet Architecture?" we may
>>> refer to (archival) sources
>>>
>>> "RFC 1958: Architectural Principles of the Internet"
>>>
>>> (Carpenter, Brian E. Ed, IAB, 1996)
>>>
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc1958
>>>
>>> (Note:)
>>>
>>> It was a snapshot record of the principles of the Internet
>>> Achitecture intended for general guidance and general
>>> interest...
>>>
>>> It was updated by RFC 3439...
>>>
>>> Both the concept "Internet Architecture" and the document RFC
>>> 1958 have history bringing readers to other relevant
>>> sources... They supposedly also give suggestions to come to
>>> broader or other conceptual discourses on "governance and
>>> technical work"
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>>
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Architecture-discuss mailing list
>>> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss
>>>
>>>