Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-02 - 10/2/18 - 10/16/18
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Tue, 16 October 2018 20:11 UTC
Return-Path: <andy@yumaworks.com>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43BC2130E37 for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KwfO73mk0Qzm for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:11:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A51DD130E36 for <netmod@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:11:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id u21-v6so22128627lja.8 for <netmod@ietf.org>; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:11:12 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=60mHRPsHnFb/MV4bh6VvgcNQn96wNHVtebp0lQDoYL0=; b=tCdaGdEW/L2lacLICex4eHdzlj4qvSSPkKelAMUPl1vC5IgLuthJgKlTBlKVl9b87n Odn++An0GqXk4iY85j26utqVNGZ8804gydf2RhznoFnXb4xx6MaFFvZ0a7TuJQg6xrt4 TdvhLU456ImF/mWgsBs4/yY2ZCA99klAMnISwUsvYJCC2n23MutbO7Llm731kve6HWne zK7QzRUapA8pPCZ0l0gnhT6pRlrSxgJmPt8dR4ABY/lgog5SgWmab4vBMCPoP0u1L2MO T1rQH4mKJcwiQS+Njkvcak7xlPLdJ8nxMH6cAPbC2SIxW+g5iaEwhrN4yumV31dalgeU EEMQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=60mHRPsHnFb/MV4bh6VvgcNQn96wNHVtebp0lQDoYL0=; b=e0fTQ6afx/9Uw4Cvk6Ps1qnb/b8BDq1PJoDdbayK4HEV4uDhXUGXvQS1boVVO2cgLN MF0mGDi0a0Kppiffp62y1ea0CmEWF7/nwMCb9EcGzt3tFVDYQjVccHaZ/u1WxNbIvlMH 1F70+XTb8TE5Ck/PKUTuK/d5ClUQMYMX254LgVD2o/7WEBVNzlQQiA5estW+2xNHVSIn /B7K+9fpqhB/V70rMZZ7mkImo9Z7c8PXIXw0hQfGmhVRcggHLhGiRS1wOl1lpv+Zmvm3 9s2PvTNH5CCatp1y1NiCB911o99LCWY2ClEIBcAZwG3fVyeQwn5NX5acgxrn+qvt1swu 91fg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoitB7Wc/Qmb49Bv8H21LJtWBbcG0g/uQNHGAxLKlVC4D45uIF/o lmFHaSvwfyzgT3vA0W08eKP5J6Tg0mIaY+RZRSWjPsby
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60yOq6njuU3BACnzyDdNfGKAYPqUcRDtGCMwmUrecNisiwvKfXrVoY51uVDbg50UxyKqq+IwJ0uEG8q76/JYSI=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:4408:: with SMTP id r8-v6mr16305663lja.21.1539720670601; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 2002:a19:f811:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:11:09 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <sa64ldl8ypz.fsf@chopps.org>
References: <b45d1c39-c2f0-bcaf-61a4-9822ac04725a@bogus.com> <20181002203031.pcdclhq7vb5tohrj@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <57BCB4D8-D82F-43C9-8D05-2F52A174F37C@chopps.org> <20181016130829.3jnbnxyb5vjlogih@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <CABCOCHTZ6Vj+5WxmAXQLVCEQ3AP95RbYtvCqh0PtsuUdaANM8A@mail.gmail.com> <sa64ldl8ypz.fsf@chopps.org>
From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:11:09 -0700
Message-ID: <CABCOCHQNrdNhAqEx_KMToJw6kRHCWAP2e10cBTH8r_b-MZYSnQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, NETMOD Working Group <netmod@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009ff63105785e2792"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/3K0x1bpqTF1USoxlQGz-zv9a1Xo>
Subject: Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-02 - 10/2/18 - 10/16/18
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 20:11:15 -0000
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> wrote: > > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes: > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < >> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 08:31:43AM -0400, Christian Hopps wrote: >>> > >>> > On Oct 2, 2018, at 4:30 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < >>> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: >>> >>> > > - Standard tags defined in description statements >>> > > >>> > > I do not like this. YANG has extension statements and having to >>> > > parse stuff out of free text description statements seems to be a >>> > > movement backwards. >>> > >>> > This is used by the human implementer of the module (i.e., they need to >>> write code to implement the module). As such it was not intended for >>> machine parsing. >>> > >>> >>> I am personally not convinced. The whole reason why we have YANG is >>> automation and I believe people will go and write tools to extract >>> tags and having to extract them out of free form text looks like a >>> step backwards. >>> >>> >> >> It is more than a step backwards. >> There is an unexplained procedure for declaring the module-tag >> conformance, >> in addition to the module-tag mappings. >> >> All YANG designers are supposed to learn the exact text to write (not >> free-form at all) >> and this draft updates 6087bis with procedures for declaring the >> module-tags >> in the description-stmt. >> >> Also, tool developers are supposed to parse the description-stmt looking >> for the >> module-tag definitions. But instead, tool developers are going to say "Use >> our >> proprietary YANG extension because we are never going to parse description >> statements" >> > > I've added the extension statement. > good > > > > - System management >>> > > >>> > > What is 'system management' and a 'system management protocol'? >>> > >>> > These were derived from the work the RtgYangDT originally did where we >>> were organizing everything under a single device tree. This tree concept >>> was (rightly) abandoned to be replaced with use of tags. Examples of >>> protocols would be Syslog, TACAC+, SNMP, Netconf, ... I've added that to >>> the description. >>> > >>> >>> I am generally not a fan of definition by example. Is SSH a 'system >>> management protocol'? >>> >>> >> >> An example is not a definition. >> The IETF is supposed to know the difference. >> > > Do you have some suggestions for text that could replace the examples? > > Some of these things seem painful obvious, like do we *really* need to > define what we mean by a routing protocol? > > This draft needs to define the module-tag encoding wrt/ - valid characters (e.g., some subset of UTF-8) - min/max length (e.g., implementation MUST support at least 64 chars and can support larger) Section 3 (Tag Prefixes) seems to imply that all modules tags follow a structure to specify the naming authority. According to the YANG module, the data type is a plain string, which includes lots of problematic chars and zero-length strings. Does the string "routing" match "ietf:routing" or "vendor:routing"? How about "routing:bgp"? Is the char ":" allowed in a tag? Is "vendor::::::::" a valid tag? IMO this draft does not need to define any specific module-tag content but it does need to define in precise terms how a protocol encodes a module-tag and how a module-tag match is determined. Thanks, > Chris. > Andy
- [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-02 -… joel jaeggli
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Alex Campbell
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Alex Campbell
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Alex Campbell
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] EXTERNAL: Re: WG LC draft-ietf-netmo… Alex Campbell
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Christian Hopps
- Re: [netmod] WG LC draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-… Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [netmod] EXTERNAL: Re: WG LC draft-ietf-netmo… Christian Hopps