Re: [netmod] status-description
Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> Mon, 04 May 2020 18:15 UTC
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Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 20:15:29 +0200
Message-Id: <20200504.201529.1387319685300564650.id@4668.se>
To: rrahman@cisco.com
Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, mbj+ietf@4668.se, balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com, netmod@ietf.org
From: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] status-description
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"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com> wrote: > What are your thoughts on having description statement under status in > yang-next? No problem! In fact, "description" could be allowed under _any_ statement... /martin > Is it the same as what you’ve stated on status-description > extension? > > I believe the extension is useful, although I do see the point made > that an extra statement leads to extra complexity. But using > description statement in yang-next should not be an issue? > > Regards, > Reshad. > > From: 'Andy Bierman' <andy@yumaworks.com> > Date: Monday, May 4, 2020 at 1:32 PM > To: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> > Cc: Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>, "Reshad Rahman > (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [netmod] status-description > > > > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 9:38 AM Martin Björklund > <mbj+ietf@4668.se<mailto:mbj%2Bietf@4668.se>> wrote: > Hi, > > Balázs Lengyel > <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com<mailto:balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>> > wrote: > > Hello, > > While status-description is not a critical part of this work, it is > > still useful, does not harm and is such a small addition, I do not > > understand why Martin objects. > > Every additional statement adds to the overall complexity. As Jason > explained, this particular statement doesn't really help much. > > > +1 > > We should not start down the path of specialized description > statements. > > I was part of a design team many years ago that was trying to > figure out why engineers were having so much trouble writing MIB > modules. > One significant finding: people disliked working on MIBs because there > were so > many special little rules (CLRs) for every little detail in the > module. > > IMO we are starting to make the same mistake with YANG. > > > /martin > > Andy > > > > > > So why is status-description good: > > Sometimes additional information is needed about deprecation, > > obsolescence: > > - is the item still fully functional? > > - when will its functionality be removed? > > - when will the schema node itself be removed? > > - is there a replacement or workaround that could/should be used instead > > - of deprecated/obsolete item? > > The text can be used by tools. Using a separate statement to provide > > this > > information is a method to separate the main description from this > > status specific description. > > In most cases both in the CLI and on NMS GUIs only the description is > > displayed. > > However there is a possibility to display the status information too. > > > > In a way it is similar why we have separate description, contact, > > reference, organization statements under module. > > All these are just text, they could all be pushed under a single > > description statement. Tools can't act on these automatically, still > > it is good to separate them. > > > > Regards Balazs > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org>> > > On Behalf Of Sterne, Jason > > (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > Sent: 2020. április 29., szerda 23:38 > > To: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) > > <rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>; > > Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se<mailto:mbj%2Bietf@4668.se>>; > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > Subject: Re: [netmod] status-description (WAS Re: mbj review of > > draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning-01) > > > > I think we could wait until YANG 2.0 to add a description to the > > status. > > > > Without a status description, an intelligent "YANG diff" of the models > > would produce this: > > a) new status deprecated statement > > b) change to a description > > > > With a status description we'd identify this: > > a) new status deprecated statement > > b) new status description > > > > In both cases it is (a) that identifies the most clear information. > > > > In both cases (b) provides no additional information that can be acted > > upon in an automated fashion. The tool could only flag that (b) > > occurred in both cases and a human would then have to go look at it. > > > > If the only change between two versions of a module was a status > > description change, then again a human would have to take a look. If > > we add some sort of "nbc" tag to the leaf for tooling, then it also > > doesn't matter which description changed. > > > > Jason > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org>> > > > On Behalf Of Reshad Rahman > > > (rrahman) > > > Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 5:43 PM > > > To: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se<mailto:mbj%2Bietf@4668.se>>; > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > Subject: [netmod] rev:status-description (WAS Re: mbj review of > > > draft-verdt- > > > netmod-yang-module-versioning-01) > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/51 > > > > > > o 3.4 > > > > > > leaf imperial-temperature { > > > type int64; > > > units "degrees Fahrenheit"; > > > status deprecated { > > > rev:status-description > > > "Imperial measurements are being phased out in favor > > > of their metric equivalents. Use metric-temperature > > > instead."; > > > } > > > description > > > "Temperature in degrees Fahrenheit."; > > > } > > > > > > I don't think rev:status-description is necessary / worth it. > > > This > > > can easily be written with the normal description statement > > > instead: > > > > > > leaf imperial-temperature { > > > type int64; > > > units "degrees Fahrenheit"; > > > status deprecated; > > > description > > > "Imperial measurements are being phased out in favor > > > of their metric equivalents. Use metric-temperature > > > instead. > > > > > > Temperature in degrees Fahrenheit."; > > > } > > > > > > While rev:status-description isn't strictly necessary, without it we'd > > > have to modify the node's description as you pointed out. That'd make > > > tooling more > > > difficult: is the description change BC or NBC? Also, a user looking > > > at a diff would need to go through the description change. Use of > > > rev:status- description makes this easier to handle. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2020-03-20, 5:08 PM, "netmod on behalf of Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" > > > <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of > > > rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > We've opened issues to track your review comments (see below). > > > Will kick off separate therads for each issue. > > > > > > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver- > > > dt/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Aupdated-mod-rev-handling > > > > > > Regards, > > > Reshad. > > > > > > On 2020-03-10, 3:31 PM, "netmod on behalf of Martin Björklund" > > > <netmod- bounces@ietf.org<mailto:bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of > > > mbj+ietf@4668.se<mailto:mbj%2Bietf@4668.se>> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Here are my review comments of > > > draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning-01. > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.1.1 > > > > > > o In statements that have any data definition statements as > > > substatements, those data definition substatements MAY be > > > reordered, as long as they do not change the ordering or any > > > "rpc" > > > "input" substatements. > > > > > > I think this needs to capture that no descendant statements to > > > "input" can be reordered. Same for "output" (note, "input" and > > > "output" in both "rpc" and "action"). > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > All revision labels that match the pattern for the "version" > > > typedef in the ietf-yang-semver YANG module MUST be interpreted > > > as > > > YANG semantic version numbers. > > > > > > I don't think this is a good idea. Seems like a layer violation. > > > What if my project use another dialect of semver, that wouldn't > > > be > > > possible with this rule. I think this needs to be removed. > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > Submodules MUST NOT use revision label schemes that could > > > be confused > > > with the including module's revision label scheme. > > > > > > Hmm, how do I ensure that this MUST NOT is handled correctly? > > > What > > > exactly does "could be confused with" mean? > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > In the filename of a YANG module, where it takes the form: > > > module- > > > or-submodule-name ['@' revision-label] ( '.yang' / > > > '.yin' ) > > > > > > Should this section update 5.2 of RFC 7950? I know that 5.2 just > > > says "SHOULD". But existing tools implement this SHOULD, and > > > they > > > need to be updated to handle this new convention. > > > > > > But I wonder if this a good idea. It means that a tool that > > > looks > > > for a module with a certain revision date cannot simply check the > > > filenames, but need to parse all available modules (wijust > > > to find the > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.4 > > > > > > leaf imperial-temperature { > > > type int64; > > > units "degrees Fahrenheit"; > > > status deprecated { > > > rev:status-description > > > "Imperial measurements are being phased out in favor > > > of their metric equivalents. Use metric-temperature > > > instead."; > > > } > > > description > > > "Temperature in degrees Fahrenheit."; > > > } > > > > > > I don't think rev:status-description is necessary / worth it. > > > This > > > can easily be written with the normal description statement > > > instead: > > > > > > leaf imperial-temperature { > > > type int64; > > > units "degrees Fahrenheit"; > > > status deprecated; > > > description > > > "Imperial measurements are being phased out in favor > > > of their metric equivalents. Use metric-temperature > > > instead. > > > > > > Temperature in degrees Fahrenheit."; > > > } > > > > > > > > > o 3.5 > > > > > > The example modules should be legal YANG modules. Use e.g. > > > "urn:example:module" as namespace. > > > > > > Also, the modules are missing the last "}", which confuses the > > > "rfcstrip" tool.. > > > > > > > > > o 4.1.1 > > > > > > Alternatively, the first example could have used the revision > > > label > > > "1.0.0" instead, which selects the same set of > > > revisions/versions.. > > > > > > import example-module { > > > rev:revision-or-derived 1.0.0; > > > } > > > > > > Shouldn't this be s/1..0.0/2.0.0/g ? > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > I think the module name "ietf-yl-revisions" should be changed to > > > "ietf-yang-library-revisions". "yl" is not a well-known acronym. > > > > > > > > > o 5.2.2 > > > > > > Wouldn't it be better if the leaf "deprecated-nodes-implemented" > > > and > > > "obsolete-nodes-absent" were of type "boolean" rather than type > > > "empty"? > > > > > > > > > o 7.1 > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label statements > > > for > > > all > > > newly published YANG modules, and all newly published revisions > > > of > > > existing YANG modules. The revision-label MUST take the form > > > of > > > a > > > YANG semantic version number [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-semver]. > > > > > > I strongly disagree with this new rule. IETF modules use a > > > linear > > > history, so there are no reasons to use "modified semver". > > > > > > It is ok to use rev:nbc-changes if needed, though. > > > > > > > > > o 7.1.1 > > > > > > There is a missing " in: > > > > > > 4. For status "obsolete", it is RECOMMENDED to keep the > > > "status- > > > description" information, from when the node had status > > > "deprecated, which is still relevant. > > > HERE -----------^ > > > > > > > > > o 8 > > > > > > s/CODE ENDS>/<CODE ENDS>/ > > > > > > > > > o Both YANG modules > > > > > > All extensions should specify the grammar; i.e., in which > > > statements > > > they can be present and which substatements they can have. > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
- [netmod] rev:status-description (WAS Re: mbj revi… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] status-description (WAS Re: mbj revi… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] status-description (WAS Re: mbj revi… Balázs Lengyel
- Re: [netmod] status-description Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] status-description Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] status-description Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] status-description Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] status-description Rob Wilton (rwilton)