Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-08

"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Tue, 23 October 2018 16:57 UTC

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Reply-To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Martin Bjorklund'" <mbj@tail-f.com>, <lhotka@nic.cz>
Cc: <netmod@ietf.org>
References: <326034f9a137b0489137bc39616d166f221e02a2.camel@nic.cz> <20181023.162748.209178731500337122.mbj@tail-f.com> <27cbd2fe3dd114e981fce2abb1723c5115550142.camel@nic.cz> <20181023.180334.1196557244986533615.mbj@tail-f.com>
In-Reply-To: <20181023.180334.1196557244986533615.mbj@tail-f.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 17:57:27 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/7qaA0SMTDMxgtSkfeG5zgimYCMA>
Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-08
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Nicely said, Martin.
The intention is that if, like Ladislav, you like to work in some long-line
format, then it works as documented and the tools can wrap.
If, like me, and maybe like Martin, you think pretty formatting is something
that improves readability, the draft also lets you do that.

A

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com]
> Sent: 23 October 2018 17:04
> To: lhotka@nic.cz
> Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-
> 08
> 
> Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2018-10-23 at 16:27 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:
> > > Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2018-10-23 at 14:45 +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. I think you miss the point. While example XML/JSON YANG is included
> in
> > > > > drafts, and while the authors are allowed to produce those drafts as
txt
> > > > > files,
> > > > > or while the authors want to achieve pretty-to-read formatting, this
work
> > > > > falls
> > > > > into the scope of those authors.
> > > >
> > > > The folding of long lines should be done as the very last (automatic)
step
> > > > before the document gets published. Doing it earlier means that the
source
> > > code
> > > > in this folded form can be (accidentally) further edited, which can lead
to
> > > > inconsistencies.
> > >
> > > I will use folding e.g. for instance document examples in XML and
> > > JSON.
> > >
> > > My plan is to keep the example files with manually added breaks in my
> > > repo, and as part of validation run a script that unfolds the
> > > examples, and then validate the result.  The reason for this is that I
> > > think readbility of the examples is important.
> >
> > This seems backwards to me. If you need to edit such an example, you may
> have to
> > remove the backslashes, reformat and insert them again.
> >
> > If it's not possible to fold lines according to the syntax of a given
language,
> > I'd prefer to keep the original lines as long as possible and rely on an
> > automatic procedure just before the final document is rolled out.
> 
> Fortunately, the draft allows us both to work the way we prefer.
> 
> 
> /martin
> 
> 
> >
> > Lada
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > /martin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > As long as the document is being moved around and edited, it would be
> better
> > > to
> > > > keep the source code untouched.
> > > >
> > > > Lada
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Yes, the authors discussed the <sourcecode> element and agreed that
> it
> > > will
> > > > > be in scope.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, we are all sort of waiting for xml2rfc v3 and pending
completion,
> > > we
> > > > > want to move this forward for v2 that is in use today.
> > > > >
> > > > > (More than) Happy to come back and revisit this issue when v3 is
> deployed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Adrian
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ladislav
> > > Lhotka
> > > > > > Sent: 23 October 2018 14:24
> > > > > > To: netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll draft-kwatsen-netmod-
> artwork-
> > > folding-
> > > > > > 08
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 2018-10-23 at 14:40 +0200, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I support the adoption.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Comments:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. My general feeling is that such technicalities should be
handled by
> > > > > > >    the RFC editor and/or tools rather than YANG module and RFC
> > > authors.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. xml2rfc v3 introduced a new element, <sourcecode>, that is
> intended
> > > > > > >    for source code inclusion. This document should therefore cover
> > > this
> > > > > > >    element as well (primarily?). One problem with it is that the
> > > xml2rfc
> > > > > > >    tool automatically adds the <CODE BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS>
> markers,
> > > > > > >    which interferes with YANG convention specified in RFC 8407,
> > > > > > >    sec. 3.2. I have already raised a question about this in the
> > > > > > >    xml2rfc-dev mailing list.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Update: using the "name" attribute with <sourcecode> does the right
> > > thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     <sourcecode name="ietf-foo@2016-03-20.yang">
> > > > > >     ...
> > > > > >     </sourcecode>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > results in
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     <CODE BEGINS> file "ietf-foo@2016-03-20.yang"
> > > > > >     ...
> > > > > >     <CODE ENDS>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lada
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lada
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> writes:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is start of a two week poll on making
> > > > > > > > draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-08 a working group
> > > > > > > > document. Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support"
or
> > > > > > > > "no/do not support".  If indicating no, please state your
> > > reservations
> > > > > > > > with the document.  If yes, please also feel free to provide
> > > comments
> > > > > > > > you'd like to see addressed once the document is a WG document.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The poll ends Oct 1.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lou (and co-chairs)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Ladislav Lhotka
> > > > > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs
> > > > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> > > > --
> > > > Ladislav Lhotka
> > > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs
> > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> > > >
> > --
> > Ladislav Lhotka
> > Head, CZ.NIC Labs
> > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> >