Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label statements
"Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> Tue, 31 March 2020 17:19 UTC
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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
CC: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label statements
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:18:59 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/D1L4_1TQG7MyK1jK-N_zREUD5LE>
Subject: Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label statements
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Hi Andy, I wasn't so much worried about people filling in the revision statements as they go along. But after a while (especially for vendor models) the list of revision statements could get very large and there may be a desire to remove some of them, or somehow "compress" the information for the 2nd half of the statements, etc. One primary value of the yang semver is a quick easy way to see if two arbitrary versions are BC, NBC (or in the case of M, "possibly NBC, you'd better check"). It doesn't require keeping a long history to have a "cumulative" indication. Jason From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 6:15 PM To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com> Cc: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label statements On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:57 PM Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>> wrote: Please see inline > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Björklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se<mailto:mbj%2Bietf@4668.se>> > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 5:51 PM > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>> > Cc: rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>; netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label > statements > > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>> wrote: > > > But it is not true. What happened between 1.0.2M and 1.0.3M? > > > > It tells you there is an NBC change between 1.0.2M and 1.0.3M. > > No. As you note below it says that all bets are off. The change > between these two could be a spelling error fix. Hence, Reshad's > statement that "The revision label allows a user to easily figure out > whether 2 revisions are (N)BC." is not correct. [>>JTS: ] You are correct and I made a mistake in my reply (looked too quickly). The M gives you one chance to indicate a NBC change in a branch. After that you no longer know (i.e. no worse than no revision label at all). it is a compromise that allows: - knowledge about the nature of changes on a branch that hasn't been poisoned yet - one chance to alert users that an NBC change was made on a branch That is useful enough to have it IMO. Don't agree. Also find the argument that the revision history will be incomplete not convincing. If a developer knows enough to add the M then they can know enough to fill in the revision-stmt correctly. > > > The M gives an indication that a branch has been "poisoned" by an > > NBC change and that all bets are off from that point onwards in that > > branch. > > > /martin Andy > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Martin Björklund > > > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 4:40 PM > > > To: rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com> > > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label > > > statements > > > > > > "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2020-03-30, 2:20 PM, "Martin Björklund" <mbj+ietf@4668.se<mailto:mbj%2Bietf@4668.se>> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>> wrote: > > > > > On 2020-03-28, 4:41 AM, "Martin Björklund" <mbj+ietf@4668.se<mailto:mbj%2Bietf@4668.se>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver-dt/issues/45 > > > > > > > > > > > > o 7.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > > > All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label > statements > > > for > > > > > > all > > > > > > newly published YANG modules, and all newly published > > > revisions of > > > > > > existing YANG modules. The revision-label MUST take the > form > > > of a > > > > > > YANG semantic version number [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang- > > > semver]. > > > > > > > > > > > > I strongly disagree with this new rule. IETF modules use a > linear > > > > > > history, so there are no reasons to use "modified semver". > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ok to use rev:nbc-changes if needed, though. > > > > > > > > > > > > We believe some IETF models may not follow linear history, this > was > > > > > > brought up (I think) for IDR. Modified semver allows for non- > linear > > > > > > history and also doesn't preclude linear history. So even if we end > up > > > > > > having no IETF modules using branching, modified semver still > works. > > > > > > > > > > With the clarifiactions and updates in > > > > > draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning, non-linear versioning > > > > > works without modified semver. So there is no technical reason to > use > > > > > modified semver in IETF modules. > > > > > > > > > > So are you proposing we use some other revision-label scheme (e.g. > > > semver 2.0.0) for IETF modules? > > > > > > > > > > Or that IETF modules shouldn't use revision-labels? > > > > > > > > That IETF shouldn't use revision labels. > > > > > > > > The revision label allows a user to easily figure out whether 2 > > > > revisions are (N)BC. > > > > > > I think you meant "modified semver as revision label allows ..." > > > > > > But it is not true. What happened between 1.0.2M and 1.0.3M? > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > Without the label, you always have to use tooling. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > I am all for using rev:nbc-changes or rev:editorial-changes (which I > > > > think should be added) in IETF modules. > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or do you have something else in mind? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > > > I can reluctantly accept that modified smever is published as > > > > > Experimental. But that doesn't mean that IETF modules should use > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2020-03-20, 5:08 PM, "netmod on behalf of Reshad Rahman > > > (rrahman)" > > > > > > <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of > > > > > > rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > > > > > > > We've opened issues to track your review comments (see > below). > > > Will > > > > > > kick off separate therads for each issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-ver- > > > dt/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Aupdated-mod-rev-handling > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2020-03-10, 3:31 PM, "netmod on behalf of Martin > Björklund" > > > > > > <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of mbj+ietf@4668..se> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Here are my review comments of > > > > > > draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning-01. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.1.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > o In statements that have any data definition statements > as > > > > > > substatements, those data definition substatements MAY > be > > > > > > reordered, as long as they do not change the ordering or > any > > > > > > "rpc" > > > > > > "input" substatements. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this needs to capture that no descendant statements > to > > > > > > "input" can be reordered. Same for "output" (note, "input" > and > > > > > > "output" in both "rpc" and "action"). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > All revision labels that match the pattern for the "version" > > > > > > typedef in the ietf-yang-semver YANG module MUST be > > > interpreted as > > > > > > YANG semantic version numbers. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think this is a good idea. Seems like a layer violation. > > > > > > What if my project use another dialect of semver, that > wouldn't > > > be > > > > > > possible with this rule. I think this needs to be removed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > Submodules MUST NOT use revision label schemes that > could > > > be > > > > > > confused > > > > > > with the including module's revision label scheme. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, how do I ensure that this MUST NOT is handled > correctly? > > > What > > > > > > exactly does "could be confused with" mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > In the filename of a YANG module, where it takes the form: > > > > > > module- > > > > > > or-submodule-name ['@' revision-label] ( '.yang' / '.yin' ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Should this section update 5.2 of RFC 7950? I know that 5.2 > just > > > > > > says "SHOULD". But existing tools implement this SHOULD, > and > > > they > > > > > > need to be updated to handle this new convention. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I wonder if this a good idea. It means that a tool that > looks > > > > > > for a module with a certain revision date cannot simply > check > > > the > > > > > > filenames, but need to parse all available modules (wijust to > > > find > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.4 > > > > > > > > > > > > leaf imperial-temperature { > > > > > > type int64; > > > > > > units "degrees Fahrenheit"; > > > > > > status deprecated { > > > > > > rev:status-description > > > > > > "Imperial measurements are being phased out in favor > > > > > > of their metric equivalents. Use metric-temperature > > > > > > instead."; > > > > > > } > > > > > > description > > > > > > "Temperature in degrees Fahrenheit."; > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think rev:status-description is necessary / worth it. > This > > > > > > can easily be written with the normal description statement > > > instead: > > > > > > > > > > > > leaf imperial-temperature { > > > > > > type int64; > > > > > > units "degrees Fahrenheit"; > > > > > > status deprecated; > > > > > > description > > > > > > "Imperial measurements are being phased out in favor > > > > > > of their metric equivalents. Use metric-temperature > > > > > > instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > Temperature in degrees Fahrenheit."; > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 3.5 > > > > > > > > > > > > The example modules should be legal YANG modules. Use > e.g. > > > > > > "urn:example:module" as namespace. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, the modules are missing the last "}", which confuses > the > > > > > > "rfcstrip" tool. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 4.1.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Alternatively, the first example could have used the revision > > > > > > label > > > > > > "1.0.0" instead, which selects the same set of > > > revisions/versions. > > > > > > > > > > > > import example-module { > > > > > > rev:revision-or-derived 1.0.0; > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > Shouldn't this be s/1.0.0/2.0.0/g ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the module name "ietf-yl-revisions" should be > changed > > > to > > > > > > "ietf-yang-library-revisions". "yl" is not a well-known > acronym. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 5.2.2 > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be better if the leaf "deprecated-nodes- > > > implemented" and > > > > > > "obsolete-nodes-absent" were of type "boolean" rather than > > > type > > > > > > "empty"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 7.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > The text says: > > > > > > > > > > > > All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label > statements > > > for > > > > > > all > > > > > > newly published YANG modules, and all newly published > > > revisions of > > > > > > existing YANG modules. The revision-label MUST take the > form > > > of a > > > > > > YANG semantic version number [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang- > > > semver]. > > > > > > > > > > > > I strongly disagree with this new rule. IETF modules use a > linear > > > > > > history, so there are no reasons to use "modified semver". > > > > > > > > > > > > It is ok to use rev:nbc-changes if needed, though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 7.1.1 > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a missing " in: > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. For status "obsolete", it is RECOMMENDED to keep the > > > "status- > > > > > > description" information, from when the node had status > > > > > > "deprecated, which is still relevant. > > > > > > HERE -----------^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o 8 > > > > > > > > > > > > s/CODE ENDS>/<CODE ENDS>/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > o Both YANG modules > > > > > > > > > > > > All extensions should specify the grammar; i.e., in which > > > statements > > > > > > they can be present and which substatements they can have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
- [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revis… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Martin Björklund
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Ivory, William
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Kent Watsen
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Andy Bierman
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… tom petch
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include r… Rob Wilton (rwilton)