Re: [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-16 Part 1

Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> Thu, 25 January 2018 15:34 UTC

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To: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>, NETMOD Working Group <netmod@ietf.org>
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From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:34:10 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-16 Part 1
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Kent,
>
> I see a lot of suggestions to reference other drafts as examples.  I 
> would discourage doing that.  I recommend this draft clearly stating 
> the desire, including its own examples if needed.
>
I recall a remark by Rajiv (in cc) during a NETMOD meeting, along the 
lines of:
I want to create a YANG module but I don't have the time/willingness to 
read every single RFCs before doing so. I want a kind of template, along 
with examples on how to populate it.

We have to understand that a document such as RFC6087bis is not for the 
people who know YANG by heart.
So more examples to illustrate the point is obviously better.
Copying examples inside RFC6087bis we could simply references seems a 
waste of time.
>
> Regarding referencing the tree-diagrams draft, I don't agree that 
> having a "Tree Diagrams" section in the Introduction is better than an 
> inline reference where used:
>
> 1) the term "tree diagram" is not anywhere defined
>
> 2) sections having tree diagrams have to reference the section in the 
> Introduction, and why reference the Intro section when it's just as 
> easy to reference the draft?
>
> 3) it makes the Introduction and Table of Contents unnecessarily busy
>
Again, people want easy guidelines/template.

Regards, Benoit
>
> Kent // contributor
>
> On 1/25/18, 6:20 AM, "netmod on behalf of Benoit Claise" 
> <netmod-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of 
> bclaise@cisco.com <mailto:bclaise@cisco.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
>
> Thank you for this important document.
> I've been spending quite some time trying to relay feedback seen on 
> multiple fronts.
> This is part 1 of the review, till section 4.21
>
>
> -
>
>     This document defines a set of usage guidelines for Standards Track
>     documents containing [RFC7950 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7950&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=t8fshSpe0Dhh5uTE8sRNgSXoLTkY-4-nlePaYc1My0A&e=>] data models.
> This is not inline with:
>     This section contains the module(s) defined by the specification.
>     These modules SHOULD be written using the YANG 1.1 [RFC7950 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7950&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=t8fshSpe0Dhh5uTE8sRNgSXoLTkY-4-nlePaYc1My0A&e=>] syntax.
>     YANG 1.0 [RFC6020 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc6020&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=L8LZohUWZQHgCc69tSH78w3mmeBF7ZpEaYGfDPYf5-8&e=>] syntax MAY be used if no YANG 1.1 constructs or
>     semantics are needed in the module.
> So it should be changed to
>     This document defines a set of usage guidelines for Standards Track
>     documents containing YANG 1.1 [RFC7950 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7950&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=t8fshSpe0Dhh5uTE8sRNgSXoLTkY-4-nlePaYc1My0A&e=>] and YANG 1.0 [RFC6020] data models.
> Similarly in section 4
> OLD:
>     
>     Modules in IETF Standards Track specifications MUST comply with all
>     syntactic and semantic requirements of YANG [RFC7950 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7950&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=t8fshSpe0Dhh5uTE8sRNgSXoLTkY-4-nlePaYc1My0A&e=>].
> NEW:
>     Modules in IETF Standards Track specifications MUST comply with all
>     syntactic and semantic requirements of YANG 1.1 [RFC7950 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7950&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=t8fshSpe0Dhh5uTE8sRNgSXoLTkY-4-nlePaYc1My0A&e=>]. See the exception
>     for YANG 1.0 in section 3.6
> Note that I tried to add some new text around the following sentence but that paragraph became clumsy.
>     Alternatively,
>     if YANG 1.0 is used, then Modules in IETF Standards Track specifications
>     MUST comply with all syntactic and semantic requirements of YANG 1.0 [RFC6020].
> Finally, in section 3.6, I would add a sentence to this paragraph
>     This section contains the module(s) defined by the specification.
>     These modules SHOULD be written using the YANG 1.1 [RFC7950 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7950&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=t8fshSpe0Dhh5uTE8sRNgSXoLTkY-4-nlePaYc1My0A&e=>] syntax.
>     YANG 1.0 [RFC6020 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc6020&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=L8LZohUWZQHgCc69tSH78w3mmeBF7ZpEaYGfDPYf5-8&e=>] syntax MAY be used if no YANG 1.1 constructs or
>     semantics are needed in the module.
> The sentence such as:
>     if any the imported YANG modules is based on YANG 1.1, the main YANG
>     module MUST also be written in YANG 1.1.
>   - section 3, editorial:
>     There are three usage scenarios for YANG that can appear in an
>     Internet-Draft or RFC:
>     o  normative module or submodule
>     o  example module or submodule
>     o  example YANG fragment not part of any module or submodule
>     The guidelines in this document refer mainly to a normative_complete_
>     module or submodule, but may be applicable to example modules and
>     YANG fragments as well.
> Either add "complete" to "o  normative module or submodule)" and be consistent throughout the document,
> or remove it from the last sentence.
> - section 3.2
>     The "<CODE BEGINS>" tag SHOULD be followed by a string identifying
>     the file name specified inSection 5.2 of [RFC7950] 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7950-23section-2D5.2&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=oQY6lhhjRuOEYy_Nf-7HG6_-eMgwX7xZg4VKNHjnTMc&e=>.  The name string
>     form that includes the revision-date SHOULD be used.  The following
>     example is for the '2010-01-18' revision of the 'ietf-foo' module:
>     <CODE BEGINS> file"ietf-foo@2016-03-20.yang" <mailto:ietf-foo@2016-03-20.yang>
> I would add that both revision versions (on the <CODE BEGINS> and in the module) MUST match.
> I ran into all sort of tooling issues because of such discrepancies.
> - section 3.2.1
> Add "see section 4.9 regarding the namespace guidelines for example modules"
> - The following in paragraph in section 3.3 seems misplaced.
>
>         If YANG tree diagrams are used, then a normative reference to the
>
>         YANG tree diagrams specification MUST be provided for each diagram.
>
>         (Refer to the example in the next section.)
>
> It should be in section 3.4.
> Btw, no need to have the specifications for each diagram!
> Also, we want to add some guidelines on how to reference the tree 
> diagram convention
> For ex: no need to copy over the conventions
> Basically, we just need: 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc7223bis-03#section-1.3 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drfc7223bis-2D03-23section-2D1.3&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=QlnrbnGZEo-zQYzG9AWk86a_m22IcpBnGQkewEWHaxQ&e=>
>
> PROPOSAL (replacing the previous paragraph)
>
>         If YANG tree diagrams are used, then a normative reference to the
>
>         YANG tree diagrams specification MUST be provided. As an example guideline
>
>         (fromhttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc7223bis-03#section-1.3
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drfc7223bis-2D03-23section-2D1.3&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=QlnrbnGZEo-zQYzG9AWk86a_m22IcpBnGQkewEWHaxQ&e=>),
>
>         here is a subsection in the terminology section
>
>         Tree Diagrams
>
>         Tree diagrams used in this document follow the notation defined in
>
>         [I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drfc7223bis-2D03-23ref-2DI-2DD.ietf-2Dnetmod-2Dyang-2Dtree-2Ddiagrams&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=JIdabP77Rz-kArFF6DG3MG5X24_APuPzoGifHNEdpmY&e=>].
>
> - section 3.5
> You should add a good example to illustrate the second paragraph 
> (Based on some previous feedback, YANG module designer wants to work 
> from examples)
> I would suggest to add 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc8022bis-09#section-2.3 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drfc8022bis-2D09-23section-2D2.3&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=xuiAQ4ZwzGoAwnyFmJc9HzIdN7xsqTzXQ46FBLTqe8M&e=>
>
>
> - section 3.6, editorial
> OLD:
>
>    Note that all YANG statements within a YANG module are considered
>     normative, if the module itself is considered normative, and not an
>     example module.
> NEW:
>    Note that all YANG statements within a YANG module are considered
>     normative, if the module itself is considered normative, and not an
>     example module or a example YANG fragment.
>
> - section 3.6
>
>     Example YANG modules MUST NOT contain any normative text, including
>     any reserved words from [RFC2119 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc2119&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=n_u6oaVdTWs-y5ne5fi2pdgK-UigUUngP7d8uhsorxM&e=>].
> I guess it applies also to the "example YANG fragments"
> - section 3.10
> Mention yanglint.
> yanglint validates xpath, while pyang doesn't.
> - section 3.11
> You might consider the addition of xymhttps://github.com/xym-tool/xym 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_xym-2Dtool_xym&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=eULAfGo_CBVjbFXGx49HR73USrKXjCrL-XaAWKdXlKc&e=>
> - section 3.12
> mention that the examples MUST be validated.
> Pointing to the tool would be a welcome addition.
> - section 4.6.x
> You should really mention a common mistake about the missing derived-from-or-self(), flagged in many YANG doctor reviews::
>   
> You should explain the applicability: identity augmentation.
> - section 4.7 "Lifecycle Management"
>      The status statement MUST be present if its value is 'deprecated' or
>     'obsolete'.
> I've been confused for a little, thinking this section was about the IETF document lifecyle management and the obsolete document tag.
> Proposal: "Objects Lifecycle Management" or "YANG Objects Lifecycle Management"
>      The YANG objects status statement MUST be present if its value is 'deprecated' or
>     'obsolete'.
>   
> - section 4.8
>     The contact statement MUST be present.  If the module is contained in
>     a document intended for Standards Track status, then the working
>     group web and mailing information MUST be present, and the main
>     document author or editor contact information SHOULD be present.  If
>     additional authors or editors exist, their contact information MAY be
>     present.
> I would add: No need to include the WG chair contacts.
> - section 4.10
>
>         The separation of configuration data and operational state SHOULD be
>
>         considered carefully.  It is sometimes useful to define separate top-
>
>         level containers for configuration and non-configuration data.  For
>
>         some existing top-level data nodes, configuration data was not in
>
>         scope, so only one container representing operational state was
>
>         created.
>
> What about NMDA?
> This section is not inline with 4.23.3
> Btw, in case a YANG supports NMDA , RFC6087bis should include the guideline is that it must be clearly mentioned.
> The example of the abstract inhttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc7223bis-03 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drfc7223bis-2D03&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=RpSEervHdcDQlS0Ak-5TVbf3I_oR5bXvhGR68djvPSo&e=>  could be mentioned.
>     The YANG model in this document conforms to the Network Management
>     Datastore Architecture defined in I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores.
> In the same section about "top-level data definitions", any guidelines in connection withhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model/ 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Drtgwg-2Dlne-2Dmodel_&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=uuC62eM2sOBVQxxVTyk2UcxAnOiTqydTayi7j764e8w&e=>  and schema mount?
> Too early?
> In section 4.23, add the [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod-2Drfc6087bis-2D16-23ref-2DI-2DD.ietf-2Dnetmod-2Drevised-2Ddatastores&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=szYbRXpXn09E4JmhGLL-8-Te-n7tcA5DSlhzSq6qSUc&e=>] reference next to NMDA
> In section 4.23.3
> OLD:
> (b) For published models, the model should be republished with an
>     NMDA-compatible structure, deprecating non-NMDA constructs.  For
>     example, the "ietf-interfaces" model in [RFC7223 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7223&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=HrAf_Vwxp2ZT1FBY2GcbPFPLLrob4Dtap2N0IpG7WEI&e=>] will be
>     restructured as an NMDA-compatible model.
> NEW:
> (b) For published models, the model should be republished with an
>     NMDA-compatible structure, deprecating non-NMDA constructs.  For
>     example, the "ietf-interfaces" model in [RFC7223 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7223&d=DwMDaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=LtO2RQQIegWlN4MIzNkbubIXiwPDj_Uk_qYxqyLA_mc&s=HrAf_Vwxp2ZT1FBY2GcbPFPLLrob4Dtap2N0IpG7WEI&e=>] has been
>     restructured as an NMDA-compatible model in [RFC7223bis].
> I believe [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores] should a normative reference
> - section 4.14.2
> Something wrong with:
>     -top-level siblings are not ordered -top-level siblings not are not
>     static, and depends on the modules that are loaded
> - section 4.17
> Discussing with YANG doctors that a feature-per-leaf is most likely the wrong approach, Jürgen came up with this.
> OLD
>     The YANG "feature" statement is used to define a label for a set of
>     optional functionality within a module.  The "if-feature" statement
>     is used in the YANG statements associated with a feature.
>     The set of YANG features available in a module should be considered
>     carefully.  The description-stmt within a feature-stmt MUST specify
>     any interactions with other features.
>     If there is a large set of objects...
> NEW
>     The YANG "feature" statement is used to define a label for a set of
>     optional functionality within a module.  The "if-feature" statement
>     is used in the YANG statements associated with a feature.  The
>     description-stmt within a feature-stmt MUST specify any
>     interactions with other features.
>     The set of YANG features defined in a module should be considered
>     carefully. Very fine granular features increase interoperability
>     complexity and should be avoided. A likely misuse of the feature
>     mechanism is the tagging of individual leafs (e.g., counters) with
>     separate features.
>     If there is a large set of objects...
> back to section 4.5
>     If a data definition is optional, depending on server support for a
>     NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol capability, then a YANG 'feature'
>     statement SHOULD be defined to indicate that the NETCONF or RESTCONF
>     capability is supported within the data model.
> NEW:
>      If a data definition is optional which depends on server support then
>      a YANG 'feature' statement SHOULD be defined.  The defined 'feature'
>      SHOULD then be used in the conditional 'if-feature' statement
>      referencing the optional data definition.
> This is currently under discussion with the YANG doctors.
> Regards, Benoit
>