Re: [netmod] Datastore leaf for yang instance data

Balázs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> Fri, 30 November 2018 16:06 UTC

Return-Path: <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91D81128BCC for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 08:06:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.781
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.781 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=LZL7QZAp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=mvHMjMPr
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ShqOmr1YDuwQ for <netmod@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 08:06:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4E5C1271FF for <netmod@ietf.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 08:06:24 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1543593982; x=1546185982; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=eTHUZs4vxkJsmlwcallbU656Xu7isIlalGdi9/V6taU=; b=LZL7QZApfFEiRfpJP0spoNzRrSfxhop4ICv+ptUu2CYFVms36QMhYHltgO5akbUA jZTQRA5bwJtnrPxE2EXbnFixRIaeqJlmq5chv+bQNCc6/SXIQ1uPmLWzKcf709LT XK77Kntmzg/gFT66AsgBNgLqNkjXoifZSEQV4KTOyoU=;
X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f61ff70000007af1-53-5c015ffee888
Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.116]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A5.6E.31473.EFF510C5; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 17:06:22 +0100 (CET)
Received: from ESESSMR505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.127) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.116) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 17:06:22 +0100
Received: from ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) by ESESSMR505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.127) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 17:06:22 +0100
Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 17:06:21 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=3D0L1zHobXxgaFo8kwxX5Ih2RCAZB4DChsLkQMEU/ic=; b=mvHMjMPrn8sUN090OCGOHMdlmihK7UA+9sMw4KGayZ8ym7dzKLsDj3z6YNSMC90CMsMLREC+Rb3FlNz38Li08NgNsA8a5glPMdw1+njnn/nWIPQQCft72KkX7nwpkvxWu3ZO9tMo+r625r8jvgTJvYqzlEMJ8wstjEB7h1EFJng=
Received: from DB7PR07MB4935.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.192.212) by DB7PR07MB4028.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.100.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1382.6; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:06:18 +0000
Received: from DB7PR07MB4935.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c8ee:97bb:db28:7003]) by DB7PR07MB4935.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c8ee:97bb:db28:7003%2]) with mapi id 15.20.1361.015; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:06:18 +0000
From: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBMZW5neWVs?= <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>
To: Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com>, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Datastore leaf for yang instance data
Thread-Index: AQHUgy9uQuT8qLL6iU6nVdbyZztkVQ==
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:06:17 +0000
Message-ID: <e7243de7-12b5-7e41-b114-80f629a44309@ericsson.com>
References: <87y3a6izap.fsf@nic.cz> <20181106063648.jjf2scqzoack5l3z@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <58740c15bf3277e04329546476f60c1d12516594.camel@nic.cz> <20181106.104157.239419955739949818.mbj@tail-f.com> <866ff105cf8fda7eadbdce5b344f4cd734fd99b8.camel@nic.cz> <1f4103c1-4953-3df4-d50d-aed1961fbc50@ericsson.com> <20181123154951.anviss5nllq6gwrn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <d1716b42-12d0-072a-76b7-74b9a8efcbe9@ericsson.com> <20181128102050.37iyrx2xhdohnepb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <bff9a787-f9fd-1bbc-e6f2-e0dfe3fbad63@cisco.com> <20181128153215.og7yweannmux35ti@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <f60b0d28-0747-2478-a1c4-07924151d30d@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <f60b0d28-0747-2478-a1c4-07924151d30d@cisco.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [89.135.192.225]
user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1
x-clientproxiedby: AM5P190CA0003.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:206:14::16) To DB7PR07MB4935.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:5b::20)
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB7PR07MB4028; 6:aYPld59n/DqPSSzfN53NFzpN71FTltbhuN0v36GOdQnntXWAeexwhoajfj64Vj3JzvVE2diA8PPZYhautpc5sIY/Ermox5HpSudapXTIviRHUjUp1wvWCGE29cQ9QbpY1DyVJcfbFzgmHNE5bOOVxgK8sn35fNZVo7Amn3EUed717i4FIgxhiSwbzRnaRt8KlFO4p6xSb26K/3akO+lpaMY+ovMVpkf9VDUqS2XXgv+L3shtQLhEi8sKTwvTZvF16ovRbl0ekdlzuoDrhzO4oiGEGGc7Qnmksn7U5LCF7/LRQ6J/8BALUmgevp8gENeWBfE2vHjtwG6je0p8pN4pGa9ehIlF6VPT4cW89X82VqQvqdIuQiLWTTOnLKGq9VSiDIKy2rgDoM163oxZHzodzr9rsVBftmAV6dY4vOT4vrcm0u3vP9SCtWtj8+MwOn6jBjqpvoImDNbII5m43zaWQA==; 5:LaetSYyKW35cGVwpjw4ztECl45nQ9k4RxXB/A5Mv1VFAQC4fKSloRnM33f11sPmLA7IsryljBmqe4DI1g2svL4+EVekLySkZu7Yiewfq/k27Ztd21bFhCA7Q9ex+KfnR51DhKRh2AsAD5OSxagfLGx3VY5oa0AoG7I8ecYGXDxY=; 7:xfq7TPXmOd/680/UgQZvhoMeC+JEzX0BDZmGR9obNxWBQ9VjTrfQ8Uauzy74u0aqePxGyAELFVXvpGZzlQaIJyXXPha++dnvbFqSbEMDIbUgwyFQJbpqOyqVML58f8eIpomSnl9YmzkUvg9ulvZxvw==
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 19ac5a6a-d133-44f3-0c80-08d656ddc21c
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390098)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600074)(711020)(2017052603328)(7153060)(49563074)(7193020); SRVR:DB7PR07MB4028;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4028:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DB7PR07MB402804E87C4CAB33CC3E6510F0D30@DB7PR07MB4028.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(102415395)(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(3002001)(3231453)(999002)(944501466)(4983020)(52105112)(93006095)(93001095)(148016)(149066)(150057)(6041310)(20161123560045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123558120)(20161123562045)(20161123564045)(201708071742011)(7699051)(76991095); SRVR:DB7PR07MB4028; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DB7PR07MB4028;
x-forefront-prvs: 087223B4DA
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(39860400002)(136003)(366004)(396003)(346002)(376002)(51444003)(199004)(189003)(252514010)(2616005)(97736004)(3846002)(71190400001)(6512007)(105586002)(6116002)(85202003)(106356001)(7736002)(305945005)(71200400001)(65826007)(5660300001)(8676002)(66574009)(2906002)(86362001)(53936002)(81156014)(81166006)(8936002)(36756003)(99286004)(31696002)(52116002)(99936001)(186003)(26005)(6436002)(76176011)(102836004)(53546011)(6506007)(386003)(229853002)(64126003)(66066001)(65956001)(65806001)(68736007)(31686004)(316002)(93886005)(85182001)(6486002)(58126008)(110136005)(6246003)(446003)(2501003)(478600001)(11346002)(486006)(25786009)(14454004)(476003)(256004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB7PR07MB4028; H:DB7PR07MB4935.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Aa2Jqkax98XuWOaRi3gsMqplPT/dQcH5Uc7CiC9jNJlbiYvbcJpK4J5qMi5sLpaL99BFrcrvJGpGCDwcyqAKNDPvlEmfrmNbJOt0dfN2OiwJlOqfbUqUOCB7/VRxqfxThL40Te91C+sv37FZxWeqLw30Hlr3g1SSrRLjuKZGoG/rVkMOGMeb/1zw/YMiprvZd/PSBgWW4rsoNYzz109iS+l5yD4QGVJi13z86W7KCl1UDT3+GZdyD3juSxfkrNI1XngJ+XuQscLSNyslVri96SVAxAaMtfuWU+WRBJuFRhnSkvvYw3QHoAyCO1Xa/N+urWTUIyLd7EwrAgZQ8vDmbvp9O3DMR2QgJRaIeUNfsgY=
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000506020507080502030001"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 19ac5a6a-d133-44f3-0c80-08d656ddc21c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Nov 2018 16:06:17.9293 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4028
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA2WSf0hTURTHu3tvb8/l4rZmHoyyhoqZztSSUfaLLEZklEFJ2I+RL5V0yt76 YSRYgTOVstBSQac0raZZaqQLs5w/SEVZZUlmkT8K1FRcWelw5fZWBP33+d7PueeeA5cmxBa+ Bx2v0jBqlTJBSgnJgqg6TYDtKIpee++dt9xsKKLkWVmfBXLdiwt8+fPuK8RWUpFrreYr9PoZ nqLmVT9SVM/eIveSh4RhMUxC/GlGHbj5mDDuxptrRPKT3Wd7rrYRaShvRyaiacDrwPxYnImE tBi3INA/uyzgwncElvFv6G9oSa9wGj0PrNpJyh5InEOAwTLD50wuD8pGO5xhEEG7uYyXiVxo CoeDduIpzy4kOAfBWH6BQyzBG2Eqw0LaWYLDYHa0k8exDO7UX0d2JrE3fBz5RdlZhLdA80+j 84VaPjRm33YIF7wJdF1mByO8FH50VDoaEdgd+oZ1DgYsgYEXnRTHbjAyZONzLIX80T4Hu+HD cFOf7VgbcB6CoYxiAVfkD129w4jj5fBSl+UsekNBvc3o7BQB99sKBZzoQ6C9UEpywg8aL2Uj brwj0PAhwznGSdD2lghyUFDhP9NyfBlBSVpMoWPtxdBeMExy56FQXDtAcLwGykvHiP/vboT8 2SaK41WQmzUg4Hg9jLVOIY5DoLxqjipBQgNyYxmWTYwNDpEx6vjjLJukkqkYTQ2a/31ND60B 9ahibJsJYRpJXUXHIlG0mK88zaYkmpDXfJ/BBxVm5EGqklSMVCLqTl8QLRbFKFPOMeqko+pT CQxrQstoUuoukhkaDolxrFLDnGSYZEb9x/JoF480tPKexZf3do9Xj+vkhs2aTUWfbMEdho6S gYuN4enTX3xsnZGmRYGhxn1hyfK7X1/vf9g/vf/9+e07e1IfmUJlpaM754JXVClj+lO0nv5L 8Oq4I2cq/ep9FAfYHcYVAn9fstzT2tw6FzEdUVc+nuHfqgszGydOSBaF77KkRi000daDUpKN Uwb5EWpW+RuPkDmShQMAAA==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/GQINXHCyyi_qMu6UL3Dz_cJBtGQ>
Subject: Re: [netmod] Datastore leaf for yang instance data
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:06:28 -0000

On 2018. 11. 28. 16:43, Robert Wilton wrote:
>
> On 28/11/2018 15:32, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 03:27:26PM +0000, Robert Wilton wrote:
>>> On 28/11/2018 10:20, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 09:41:12AM +0000, Balázs Lengyel wrote:
>>>>>> I do not buy this story. Your software needs to decide somehow what
>>>>>> instance data means. A config true leaf in candidate means something
>>>>>> different than the same config true leaf in running and this yet 
>>>>>> again
>>>>>> means something different than the same config true leaf in 
>>>>>> operational.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /js
>>>>> BALAZS: As I understood the WG decided that this draft should only 
>>>>> be about
>>>>> the format of the yang instance data. What the SW does with it is 
>>>>> out of
>>>>> scope. So considerations whether instance data should be loaded 
>>>>> into running
>>>>> or candidate or not at all, are outside the scope.
>>>> If you do not know what the instance data means, any attempt to use it
>>>> is kind of broken.
>>>>> I want to provide a datastore indicator, but how that should be 
>>>>> used (and
>>>>> thus what is exactly means) is out of scope.
>>>> I disagree. The datastore indicator is needed to understand what the
>>>> data means, i.e., to do anything meaningful with it.
>>> I think that a datastore indicator is useful sometimes.  E.g. it 
>>> might be
>>> helpful in some cases to know that the data was associated with a 
>>> particular
>>> datastore.
>>>
>>> But in the general case I think that this is just "data at rest", and
>>> probably the key thing to know is whether (i) the data relates to
>>> configuration, or (ii) the data relates to operational state.
>>>
>>> This could potentially be inferred from a datastore leaf, or perhaps 
>>> this
>>> distinction could more explicitly be made by a separate field, which 
>>> I would
>>> make an enumeration or identity, since there might be other types of 
>>> data in
>>> future, such as capability information or diagnostics.
>>>
>> I do not understand why a datastore leaf is not sufficient and why we
>> need yet something new. If ever needed, NMDA does allow us to define
>> new datastores.
>
> Because a distinction between "candidate" vs "running" vs "intended" 
> won't necessarily be that useful.  Although knowing "running" vs 
> "intended" would allow the client to know whether it is pre/post 
> template expansion and that might be useful.
>
> The second reason is that I don't know whether things like 
> capabilities and diagnostics will be new datastores or just part of 
> operational.  I don't think that either of these two areas have really 
> been properly worked out yet.  I presume that they will come over 
> time, once more network management becomes more automated.
>
> Thanks,
> Rob

BALAZS: You are right, that these areas are not worked out. That is 
exactly why they are out of scope. This is only about the format, and 
not about the usage. As we already have about 10 use cases with 
different needs, none of which are specified exactly, I want to avoid 
defining specific metadata for use cases we don't fully understand. 
Note: it is possible and documented that the metadata can be 
extended/augmented.

regards balazs

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com