Re: [netmod] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-08: (with DISCUSS)

Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> Sat, 31 August 2019 10:11 UTC

Return-Path: <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480C312007A; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 03:11:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.698
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=BNkfbicj; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=b9psEeA3
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4whGPDi_2QXH; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 03:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FBD5120020; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 03:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9130B21EB2; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 06:11:43 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 31 Aug 2019 06:11:43 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm1; bh=+ FVWMKYUQiR0YkTscW5UisJyAM02k0MU/v0g97ErlMc=; b=BNkfbicjmCnK/OVih blwScbP/qkmlcaqgqcTwAwJWOWrwKJVCPyP/8kjEfr7BinkQPv1cwY7Cf6bFyaXS xwe/KKbypKsLyMnhVzUEnm7MRLU5THl3vLj/wE9AKymR7XSh4IiZBzzgHJjqRgZ8 UFFDC0Ed1voMODCStFdHWFynGAdHiAbaw0x/18KAISvWGAGwYx2YZJYHFoZtFarG 8s4G95eURK07/qhy3XZhmTNPpJ0xZVyos/upIRJc+3b+Yk25mFGARjHh3rlSueVg RRBGVTAtF6o/+UKAqubE0TBui0ZPllKG1hjMrsEMDD09G+Cu1VtMRiEhvs8IiTAG 6IhQA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=+FVWMKYUQiR0YkTscW5UisJyAM02k0MU/v0g97Erl Mc=; b=b9psEeA3X8LH8Xk7VJ9Fr8iOa399Rea2TLiQyBEq+301m7XQEuTzWrslv grGkg605YoeFarfdEr+JG7sEG/3C1di9doNuYUkZYVj+dCROWaoeEeKACIkdV8DS aBxjzgUt3lsSlrUehdmRyae1ahRVgeU4Z79G8jg7y6VC0zMsbATGlyaG88Txjjls Z8gEFlrY0Bl5nzs8IMCkNNRj4XXDC4jxFIalmAqwuYjhQqGMRSk4fUUJn8Dxp2w2 mubiE+giWo76PUMOe9NDZkAA3U5HRX6WTYv3qTSfX0cwPr71M7o/VPKo+pP2iwrk NTrgKVRlY1BTeRycwZ0okdf07qWvA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:30dqXbExNfvELG37P3cztKwnh9AF17mXtY8xte3ji20AfxD7bWdQDA>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduvddrudeihedgudehiecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpegtggfuhffojgffgffkfhfvsegrjehmrehhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeetlhgv gigvhicuofgvlhhnihhkohhvuceorggrmhgvlhhnihhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfh hmqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppeejjedrleejrddugeehrdeh heenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprggrmhgvlhhnihhkohhvsehfrghsthhmrg hilhdrfhhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:30dqXU4VQ4Wa9dVDQ4SpTV7071D5_M-b9dPt0IXNOjUpsa-4Fp6MMw> <xmx:30dqXRlfQr7Anipf7BpApWh6TN_BNvKIURKygMDROdZUqmpa9tJEFg> <xmx:30dqXf70My3UAc5R45qq7ST750BiqH6SlVD4BMQ63b9JYWOeZZRjGg> <xmx:30dqXZoarNSzlANlylPD6tTZs6A0zKAzQ0RVJztLw9kSxhXLGuJgQw>
Received: from [192.168.0.12] (cpc121086-nmal24-2-0-cust54.19-2.cable.virginm.net [77.97.145.55]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AEF2CD60057; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 06:11:42 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8B9250C9-296F-4384-958D-6ACD1221BE32
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16G102)
In-Reply-To: <0100016ce53e2b5d-fb76ed79-acf5-4932-912e-260f69c91f11-000000@email.amazonses.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 11:11:41 +0100
Cc: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" <netmod-chairs@ietf.org>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <E2C1D817-8699-4EDE-BDB1-E7A2B82376E6@fastmail.fm>
References: <156701823840.1110.12340821702774896307.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016cda414a2b-9c5e2b3c-96c0-4a7e-99d0-54f227d5155c-000000@email.amazonses.com> <3A93201E-9027-4415-80B5-4DEF49190D10@fastmail.fm> <CALaySJJRm0BHrRBaaUB+cmMa2uhtzLvN_AinRHSw0Co6TVWPDQ@mail.gmail.com> <5acf4990-5819-421c-bdbe-0245ab3f5ce2@www.fastmail.com> <0100016cdd9eeaa2-00a68cf6-d967-4a31-9598-eb896edb0b34-000000@email.amazonses.com> <CALaySJ+2gy=w+Lnh91xPGovFDZ32G0Onqk9pOZZjip0xKxFfAA@mail.gmail.com> <0100016ce53e2b5d-fb76ed79-acf5-4932-912e-260f69c91f11-000000@email.amazonses.com>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/OLiAMLjRq3GaDxyNdNhct0oI9wE>
Subject: Re: [netmod] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-08: (with DISCUSS)
X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <netmod.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netmod/>
List-Post: <mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod>, <mailto:netmod-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 10:11:48 -0000

Hi Kent,

> On 31 Aug 2019, at 02:15, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Alexey (and Barry),
> 
> I have clarified forced-foldings in the latest update:
> 
>    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-09

This is helpful, thank you!
> 
> Please let me know if this clears your DISCUSS.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kent
> 
> 
>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> wrote:
>> 
>> You're saying, then, that "This line ends with a backslash
>> \\[EOL][EOL]" only loses the last "\" in unfolding, because there is
>> no space character on the next line.  Is that right?  If so, Alexey is
>> right that the algorithm doesn't say that.
>> 
>> Barry
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 9:44 AM Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, at 2:31 PM, Barry Leiba wrote:
>>> 
>>> The example is set up so that the source is in 9.4, 9.4.1 is the
>>> result of "\ folding" of 9.4, and 9.4.2 is the result of "\\ folding"
>>> of 9.4.
>>> 
>>> So the original source (in 9.4) was "This line ends with a backslash \".
>>> The result of "\ folding" gives "This line ends with a backslash \\",
>>> because the backslash had to be escaped.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But the algorithm described in prose says absolutely nothing about escaping trailing "\"! So why the example is Ok, it just doesn't match the folding algorithm.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The word "escape" is a bit misleading, even though, in a way, that is what is happening (e.g., working around a special character), but it's not "escaping" in the traditional sense (i.e., the first '\' is in no way giving special significance to the second '\').  What's really going on is better described as a forced folding on a line that contains an invalid end-of-line sequence.  Makes sense?
>>> 
>>> Kent // co-author
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Barry
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 4:55 AM Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Kent,
>>> 
>>> On 28 Aug 2019, at 23:03, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Alexey,
>>> 
>>> Response at bottom.
>>> 
>>> Kent
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Alexey Melnikov via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for
>>> draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-08: Discuss
>>> 
>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> DISCUSS:
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your document.
>>> 
>>> It might be just me, but I think your examples in 9.4.1 with trailing \ don’t
>>> seem to match the folding algorithm in section 7, as it doesn’t describe
>>> special handling of trailing \.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can you be more specific regarding what it is you think doesn't match?   Step (2) says, at the location where the fold is to occur, insert '\' followed by '\n'.  That appears to be what is shown in 9.4.1, yes?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the HTML version (in datatracker) I am seeing:
>>> 
>>> “This line ends with a backslash \\”
>>> 
>>> followed by an empty line. So I see 2 trailing \ followed by end of line, instead of \, end of line, and then \.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> FWIW, the text in Section 9.4.1 (as with all the examples in the draft) was dynamically-generated (at draft build time) by feeding the text in Section 9.4 into the script in the Appendix A.
>>> 
>>> Kent  // co-author
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>