Re: [netmod] upcoming adoptions

Robert Wilton <> Fri, 08 September 2017 10:17 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94516132EDD; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 03:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.501
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QbHZLG4c37qh; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 03:17:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13554132ED6; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 03:17:14 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple;;; l=1753; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1504865835; x=1506075435; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q3KVGcUIceI4ozvz1KX+ftTjakU7vTnlV4FOpDdNTmU=; b=Vct1a97E0H2pl34YFltWuaL45JlLHlUVitjabjfrdEtKI/9nDGSmAGyZ iQqA34JcN5s+RjIaG1XyHLCC+DkVGymkePOZH0JXnVoBls0zJcMGFMXZr xP7K8erh8oF+bhg86GR8SZld/O+30hpxfj64O1ddBYeJTwEI3DlcAgfYQ w=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.42,360,1500940800"; d="scan'208";a="657318455"
Received: from (HELO ([]) by with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Sep 2017 10:17:11 +0000
Received: from [] ( []) by (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v88AHA4s000848; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 10:17:10 GMT
To: Andy Bierman <>, Martin Bjorklund <>, NETCONF Working Group <>, "" <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <20170907212317.56h64sm5lulnpu5n@elstar.local>
From: Robert Wilton <>
Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 11:17:10 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20170907212317.56h64sm5lulnpu5n@elstar.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [netmod] upcoming adoptions
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: NETMOD WG list <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 10:17:17 -0000

On 07/09/2017 22:23, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 10:51:54AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
>> I suggested the naming guideline because the NMDA design team decided to
>> add semantics to certain naming patterns, so authors have to be warned.
>> But this is a really bad idea (and slippery slope).
> I agree.
I think that there are really a few aspects to this:

1)I think that it is a good goal to try and achieve a consistent style 
across the IETF YANG modules.  This helps both readers and 
implementors.  E.g. sticking child "config" and "state" containers in 
the tree in a similar style to OpenConfig may be in-congruent with how 
with how most IETF YANG modules are written.

2) I think that is also some common sense guidance here, which is to 
avoid using node names that may prevent a module for being sensibly 
updated in future.  Hence I think that names that related to the scope 
of the data (e.g. "state", "*-state", "config", and "*-config") should 
generally be avoided, because it is possible that the scope of that data 
may change.  Something that is only operational state in a standard 
model may become configurable by a future revision, or perhaps via 
vendor deviation.

3) The top level "*-state" containers seems to be an undocumented 
historical rule in the context of the pre NMDA IETF YANG modules. Hence, 
advising people not to create top level containers called "-state" also 
seems to help avoid a potential source of confusion.

I don't know if these are necessarily rules, or just common sense. I 
don't know whether this guidance needs to be documented in rfc6087bis.  
My view is that it would probably be helpful.


> /js